Future of BBC HD on Freeview

[Scott]

I found this article lurking in my mobile phone:
https://rxtvinfo.com/2025/freeview-hd-channels-could-be-cut-next-year/#:~:text=BBC%20Free%20to%20View%20Limited's,channels%20will%20have%20to%20close

This suggests in summary that the BBC is holding back from renewing an
Ofcom licence and this could spell the end of Freeview HD with the
result that nine HD channels could be axed as a way of encouraging
viewers to switch to streaming TV platforms.

Is this uninformed journalistic speculation, a negotiating stance by
the BBC for licence fee negotiations or a real prospect?

[Tweed]

Post by Scott
https://rxtvinfo.com/2025/freeview-hd-channels-could-be-cut-next-year/#:~:text=BBC%20Free%20to%20View%20Limited's,channels%20will%20have%20to%20close
This suggests in summary that the BBC is holding back from renewing an
Ofcom licence and this could spell the end of Freeview HD with the
result that nine HD channels could be axed as a way of encouraging
viewers to switch to streaming TV platforms.
Is this uninformed journalistic speculation, a negotiating stance by
the BBC for licence fee negotiations or a real prospect?

I think the author has drawn some incorrect conclusions.

This makes more sense:

https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv

2026

BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.

In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

[AnthonyL]

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 17:39:43 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Scott
https://rxtvinfo.com/2025/freeview-hd-channels-could-be-cut-next-year/#:~:text=BBC%20Free%20to%20View%20Limited's,channels%20will%20have%20to%20close
This suggests in summary that the BBC is holding back from renewing an
Ofcom licence and this could spell the end of Freeview HD with the
result that nine HD channels could be axed as a way of encouraging
viewers to switch to streaming TV platforms.
Is this uninformed journalistic speculation, a negotiating stance by
the BBC for licence fee negotiations or a real prospect?

I think the author has drawn some incorrect conclusions.
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

[Tweed]

Post by AnthonyL
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 17:39:43 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Scott
https://rxtvinfo.com/2025/freeview-hd-channels-could-be-cut-next-year/#:~:text=BBC%20Free%20to%20View%20Limited's,channels%20will%20have%20to%20close
This suggests in summary that the BBC is holding back from renewing an
Ofcom licence and this could spell the end of Freeview HD with the
result that nine HD channels could be axed as a way of encouraging
viewers to switch to streaming TV platforms.
Is this uninformed journalistic speculation, a negotiating stance by
the BBC for licence fee negotiations or a real prospect?

I think the author has drawn some incorrect conclusions.
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

Check your aerial

[Scott]

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 20:50:32 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<***@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]

Post by Tweed

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

Check your aerial

I need an aerial as I am finding online reception too slow and
unreliable. Am I correct in thinking that in choosing between Yagi and
log periodic, if there is a single transmitter involved and the
channels are within Group B, then a Yagi would be recommended? I am
assuming (from looking around) that it is not a strong signal. I'll be
getting an aerial installer but I would like some idea in advance so I
am not a complete ignoramus.

[Tweed]

Post by Scott
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 20:50:32 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
[snip]

Post by Tweed

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

Check your aerial

I need an aerial as I am finding online reception too slow and
unreliable. Am I correct in thinking that in choosing between Yagi and
log periodic, if there is a single transmitter involved and the
channels are within Group B, then a Yagi would be recommended? I am
assuming (from looking around) that it is not a strong signal. I'll be
getting an aerial installer but I would like some idea in advance so I
am not a complete ignoramus.

Probably almost anything that claims to be a TV aerial will work these
days, assuming it is high enough and free of obstruction. Those aerials
that you observe were probably mostly installed in the days of analogue TV
when a decent signals was necessary. To give some perspective, I live in an
area which required the correct aerial, with decent gain and a bit of
height in the days of analogue. Once digital TV transmission was wound up
to today’s power levels almost anything will do. I made a computer TV tuner
work from a dipole fashioned from dividing the inner and outer of the
feeder coax stuck to the bedroom window. My existing external aerial, which
was put up around 30 years ago works just fine. It is entirely of the wrong
group, tuned for the higher frequencies which are now lost to mobile
phones.

[charles]

Post by Tweed

wrote: [snip]

Post by Tweed

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

Check your aerial

I need an aerial as I am finding online reception too slow and
unreliable. Am I correct in thinking that in choosing between Yagi and
log periodic, if there is a single transmitter involved and the
channels are within Group B, then a Yagi would be recommended? I am
assuming (from looking around) that it is not a strong signal. I'll be
getting an aerial installer but I would like some idea in advance so I
am not a complete ignoramus.

Probably almost anything that claims to be a TV aerial will work these
days, assuming it is high enough and free of obstruction. Those aerials
that you observe were probably mostly installed in the days of analogue
TV when a decent signals was necessary. To give some perspective, I live
in an area which required the correct aerial, with decent gain and a bit
of height in the days of analogue. Once digital TV transmission was wound
up to today‘s power levels almost anything will do. I made a computer TV
tuner work from a dipole fashioned from dividing the inner and outer of
the feeder coax stuck to the bedroom window. My existing external aerial,
which was put up around 30 years ago works just fine. It is entirely of
the wrong group, tuned for the higher frequencies which are now lost to
mobile phones.

Someone was complaining about what appears to be co-channel interference
during periods of 'lift'. The wrong group of aerial is likely to be the
cause. Outside the planned use, there can be odd reception lobes giving all
sorts of nastly effects. There was a Band II yagi that turned completly
back to front at over 102MHz, having been designed for 88-98 MHz!

[JMB99]

Post by charles
Someone was complaining about what appears to be co-channel interference
during periods of 'lift'. The wrong group of aerial is likely to be the
cause. Outside the planned use, there can be odd reception lobes giving all
sorts of nastly effects. There was a Band II yagi that turned completly
back to front at over 102MHz, having been designed for 88-98 MHz!

I remember years ago seeing a TV technical magazine. There was an
article on aerials and a layman might think that an aerial might work in
the wrong group with just less gain. But as Charles writes, there were
often lobes going in all sorts of directions except the desired one and
often no gain at all in the direction that the aerial pointed.

[Brian Gregory]

Post by charles
Someone was complaining about what appears to be co-channel interference
during periods of 'lift'. The wrong group of aerial is likely to be the
cause. Outside the planned use, there can be odd reception lobes giving all
sorts of nastly effects. There was a Band II yagi that turned completly
back to front at over 102MHz, having been designed for 88-98 MHz!

Also don't forget that those who are lucky enough to have their aerial
pointing away from continental Europe will also do better.

In the olden days when I was a lad there were no broadcasts in the UK
above about 98MHz.

[JMB99]

Post by Tweed
Once digital TV transmission was wound up
to today’s power levels almost anything will do.

We were sent a Set Top Box when DTT started even though there was no
local coverage at that time so I took it up to the home of a friend in
Inverness.

Naturally it worked, so I stuck my finger on the TV aerial socket and
still got perfect reception.

[pinnerite]

On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 10:04:54 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Tweed

Post by Scott
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 20:50:32 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
[snip]

Post by Tweed

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

Check your aerial

I need an aerial as I am finding online reception too slow and
unreliable. Am I correct in thinking that in choosing between Yagi and
log periodic, if there is a single transmitter involved and the
channels are within Group B, then a Yagi would be recommended? I am
assuming (from looking around) that it is not a strong signal. I'll be
getting an aerial installer but I would like some idea in advance so I
am not a complete ignoramus.

Probably almost anything that claims to be a TV aerial will work these
days, assuming it is high enough and free of obstruction. Those aerials
that you observe were probably mostly installed in the days of analogue TV
when a decent signals was necessary. To give some perspective, I live in an
area which required the correct aerial, with decent gain and a bit of
height in the days of analogue. Once digital TV transmission was wound up
to today’s power levels almost anything will do. I made a computer TV tuner
work from a dipole fashioned from dividing the inner and outer of the
feeder coax stuck to the bedroom window. My existing external aerial, which
was put up around 30 years ago works just fine. It is entirely of the wrong
group, tuned for the higher frequencies which are now lost to mobile
phones.

I have my doubts. I had a high gain aerial on a short mast above the
roof of my last house.

When the BBC shifted their HD channels, I could no longer receive them.
A new aerial fixed that.

[Woody]

Post by Scott
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 20:50:32 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
[snip]

Post by Tweed

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

Check your aerial

I need an aerial as I am finding online reception too slow and
unreliable. Am I correct in thinking that in choosing between Yagi and
log periodic, if there is a single transmitter involved and the
channels are within Group B, then a Yagi would be recommended? I am
assuming (from looking around) that it is not a strong signal. I'll be
getting an aerial installer but I would like some idea in advance so I
am not a complete ignoramus.

Other than probably a Group B aerial (yellow plug in the ends of the
boom) you may have difficulty finding a banded aerial these days, so
your option would be wideband or log periodic. This is because to get
all six muxes into into a single frequency band allotment is very
difficult. Most channel allocations that were in group A (roughly ch
21-34) will need one or two channels out of band - say 40-48 - to avoid
CCI. Likewise sites that used to use B-group (37-53) such as Emley Moor
now need at least couple of channels in the 20's or 30's following the
loss of all channels above 48 a few years back.
If you have a half decent signal then a log periodic is a good buy -
inexpensive, generally reliable, and smooth gain linearity, plus the
smaller ones have a fairly low wind loading too. They also have a good
front-back ratio which helps even more with CCI.

Have a look at the info and graphs on the web site of aerialsandtv.com
in Sheffield which may help. Also consider erecting a suitable aerial
and then putting a pre-amp in the loft to help a bit more. Toolstation
sell a lot of competitively priced aerials, amps, cables and the like
made by Blakes in Sheffield some under the brand Proception. Use good
aerial cable such as ??100 where ?? is two letters. Beware that some
such cable has aluminium foil screening inside and is prone to oxidation
and rotting - get cable that only has plain copper foil and braid.

Good luck.

[Pete Forman]

Post by AnthonyL
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 17:39:43 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Tweed

Post by Scott
https://rxtvinfo.com/2025/freeview-hd-channels-could-be-cut-next-year/#:~:text=BBC%20Free%20to%20View%20Limited's,channels%20will%20have%20to%20close
This suggests in summary that the BBC is holding back from renewing an
Ofcom licence and this could spell the end of Freeview HD with the
result that nine HD channels could be axed as a way of encouraging
viewers to switch to streaming TV platforms.
Is this uninformed journalistic speculation, a negotiating stance by
the BBC for licence fee negotiations or a real prospect?

I think the author has drawn some incorrect conclusions.
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

In last week's lift in the south east we lost SD too.

My external aerial was replaced a couple of years ago.

[Mark Carver]

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

Since the Europe wide reduction of the UHF band (once in 2012) when Ch
61 to 68 were removed, and again in 2020 ish, when everything above Ch
49 and above has now gone, there are now fewer available channels,
carrying basically the same number of services, and so co channel
transmitters have less geographical separation between them. So it
shouldn't come as any great surprise that there are more problems during
lifts.

Yes, having the correct group receiving aerial is even more desirable
these days, but it doesn't help much when the co-channel station is on a
very similar bearing to the wanted. (For instance people in Hull, using
Belmont, but getting CP stamping on their reception)

[Brian Gregory]

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

That's odd. I though I found that DVB-T2 with it's better error
correction made the HD channels a little more robust when coping with
interference due to lifts.

Maybe it just depends which frequencies the offending continental
signals are coming in on?

[charles]

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by AnthonyL
Every time there is a high pressure lift we lose all HD channels so
predominently watch BBC on LCN 1,2,9 and 231. We are within a city
boundary, not in the sticks. It's not just a matter of aged (ours
isn't old) tellys going.

That's odd. I though I found that DVB-T2 with it's better error
correction made the HD channels a little more robust when coping with
interference due to lifts.
Maybe it just depends which frequencies the offending continental
signals are coming in on?

Don't have to be continental. Plemnty of co-channel sites in the UK.

[SH]

Post by Tweed

Post by Scott
https://rxtvinfo.com/2025/freeview-hd-channels-could-be-cut-next-year/#:~:text=BBC%20Free%20to%20View%20Limited's,channels%20will%20have%20to%20close
This suggests in summary that the BBC is holding back from renewing an
Ofcom licence and this could spell the end of Freeview HD with the
result that nine HD channels could be axed as a way of encouraging
viewers to switch to streaming TV platforms.
Is this uninformed journalistic speculation, a negotiating stance by
the BBC for licence fee negotiations or a real prospect?

I think the author has drawn some incorrect conclusions.
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....

DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and LW
stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of spare
parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent from new
cars along with the CD player.

FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital

So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?

Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations are
online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?

Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting or
even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or 4g
dongle....

Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like there
is for 470 to 598 MHz?

Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

[Scott]

Post by SH

Post by Tweed

Post by Scott
https://rxtvinfo.com/2025/freeview-hd-channels-could-be-cut-next-year/#:~:text=BBC%20Free%20to%20View%20Limited's,channels%20will%20have%20to%20close
This suggests in summary that the BBC is holding back from renewing an
Ofcom licence and this could spell the end of Freeview HD with the
result that nine HD channels could be axed as a way of encouraging
viewers to switch to streaming TV platforms.
Is this uninformed journalistic speculation, a negotiating stance by
the BBC for licence fee negotiations or a real prospect?

I think the author has drawn some incorrect conclusions.
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....

I think this is because the article is titled 'Timeline of changes to
Freeview and Satellite TV'. There is no discussion about seasonal
variations in the price of bananas either.

[JMB99]

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and LW
stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of spare
parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent from new
cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations are
online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting or
even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or 4g
dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like there
is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.

What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

[Scott]

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and LW
stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of spare
parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent from new
cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations are
online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting or
even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or 4g
dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like there
is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

[charles]

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and
LW stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of
spare parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent
from new cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations
are online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting
or even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or
4g dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like
there is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed, There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

[Scott]

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and
LW stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of
spare parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent
from new cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations
are online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting
or even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or
4g dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like
there is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed, There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

I think the purpose was to improve the reception of Radio Wales by
substituting it for R3.

[Chris Green]

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed, There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

No 'complaints' doesn't necessarily equate to no listeners.

If I'm listening to (say) R4 and it stops working I'm most unlikely to
actually try and get in touch with anyone about it. I'll just try
again tomorrow.

[charles]

Post by Chris Green

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC
closing any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating
carrier only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody
noticed, There was also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland
- one person complained. I got that fault fixed within hours! Sadly
Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

No 'complaints' doesn't necessarily equate to no listeners.
If I'm listening to (say) R4 and it stops working I'm most unlikely to
actually try and get in touch with anyone about it. I'll just try again
tomorrow.

If it gets to being 2 or 3 weeks, you might try complaining, though.

[JMB99]

Post by charles

Post by Chris Green
If I'm listening to (say) R4 and it stops working I'm most unlikely to
actually try and get in touch with anyone about it. I'll just try again
tomorrow.

If it gets to being 2 or 3 weeks, you might try complaining, though.

There is of course more remote monitoring of the system now. In those
days many sites had no monitoring so no one would know they were off
until someone phoned up. This was particularly the case with Radio 3
because of the low number of listeners.

[Paul Ratcliffe]

Post by charles

Post by Chris Green
If I'm listening to (say) R4 and it stops working I'm most unlikely to
actually try and get in touch with anyone about it. I'll just try again
tomorrow.

If it gets to being 2 or 3 weeks, you might try complaining, though.

They'll still try fobbing you off saying it's your equipment fault or setup
problem.
Most people wouldn't know how to go about complaining in the first place, and
given the above, wouldn't be willing to even try finding out.

[Scott]

Post by Chris Green

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed, There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

No 'complaints' doesn't necessarily equate to no listeners.
If I'm listening to (say) R4 and it stops working I'm most unlikely to
actually try and get in touch with anyone about it. I'll just try
again tomorrow.

Or long wave, or BBC Sounds, or Freeview. I would use my initiative.

[JMB99]

Post by charles
a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed, There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

The first generation of solid-state VHF transposers were prone to that
happening.

And there was the fault on the Radio 3 distribution down in the North of
England that resulted in cross-talk from BBC1 sound that I noticed here
in the Highlands but it took weeks to get anyone to admit they could
hear it, until a listener near Talisker on the West side of Skye
complained (I think it was the same incident).

[charles]

Post by JMB99

Post by charles
a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating
carrier only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody
noticed, There was also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland
- one person complained. I got that fault fixed within hours! Sadly
Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

The first generation of solid-state VHF transposers were prone to that
happening.

The local dealer monitoring contact simply looked at a meter, saw a
carrier and decided it was on air. He never listened!

Post by JMB99
And there was the fault on the Radio 3 distribution down in the North of
England that resulted in cross-talk from BBC1 sound that I noticed here
in the Highlands but it took weeks to get anyone to admit they could
hear it, until a listener near Talisker on the West side of Skye
complained (I think it was the same incident).

It was the total failure of the audio circuit from Newcastle to Aberdeen in
the case I was thinking about. I thought my complainant was on the
mainland, but it was about 40 years ago.

[JMB99]

Post by charles
It was the total failure of the audio circuit from Newcastle to Aberdeen in
the case I was thinking about. I thought my complainant was on the
mainland, but it was about 40 years ago.

The one I remember was in a small house, designed for retired people,
somewhere near Talisker.

[charles]

Post by JMB99

Post by charles
It was the total failure of the audio circuit from Newcastle to
Aberdeen in the case I was thinking about. I thought my complainant was
on the mainland, but it was about 40 years ago.

The one I remember was in a small house, designed for retired people,
somewhere near Talisker.

definitely not the same, This particular complainant was obviously
somebody important. We had to notify all contact to the DG's office.

[tony sayer]

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and
LW stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of
spare parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent
from new cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations
are online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting
or even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or
4g dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like
there is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed,

***

Post by charles
There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

Mores the pity its on my car radio a lot of the time:)..

Mind you a couple of professional classical muso's i know reckon its
been dumbed down to try and compete with Classic FM and Scala which it
need not do, its from proper serious classical music..

And yes its audience isn't that great more to do with the listening
tastes or lack thereof of Joe Publick...


** Round here back in 2004 when Peterborough fell over, never did find
the real reason that happened, the Cambridge Madingley TX rebroadcast
the output of P'boro. Some local scallywag set up their pirate gear ands
transmitted some serious techno dance music on the input frequency duly
re transmitted on 91.1 locally went on for a few days it did;!..

[JMB99]

Post by tony sayer
Mind you a couple of professional classical muso's i know reckon its
been dumbed down to try and compete with Classic FM and Scala which it
need not do, its from proper serious classical music..

There have been people claiming that Radio 3 has been dumbed down for as
long as I can remember.

[Scott]

Post by tony sayer

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and
LW stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of
spare parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent
from new cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations
are online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting
or even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or
4g dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like
there is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed,

***

Post by charles
There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

Mores the pity its on my car radio a lot of the time:)..
Mind you a couple of professional classical muso's i know reckon its
been dumbed down to try and compete with Classic FM and Scala which it
need not do, its from proper serious classical music..

Friend of mine who played double bass for RSNO said Classic FM was
okay for doing the ironing to.

[Jeff Layman]

Post by tony sayer

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and
LW stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of
spare parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent
from new cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations
are online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting
or even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or
4g dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like
there is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed,

***

Post by charles
There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

Mores the pity its on my car radio a lot of the time:)..
Mind you a couple of professional classical muso's i know reckon its
been dumbed down to try and compete with Classic FM and Scala which it
need not do, its from proper serious classical music..

Scala Radio was renamed to "Magic Classical" on 16 September last year.
Who knew?... Unfortunately my radios are only DAB, so DAB+ stations are
not available.

I listen to Classic FM when driving or in the early hours. Before the
advent of Classic FM I used to listen to Radio 3, but found its
inclusion of very modern music (mainly dissonant) offputting*. And I'm
afraid that I don't have the patience to listen to anything more than
around 90 minutes long (Baroque music excepted), so complete operas
remain unappreciated.

*(A hangover from when I started listening to classical music in the
late 60s. My friends - who had introduced me to it - and I would
regularly go to the RFH to listen to the great orchestras with sometimes
legendary conductors. I'm afraid that none of us cared for the
infrequent starting piece when it was tagged as "first performance". My
philistine comment for many of these was "has the orchestra finished
tuning up yet?").

[Scott]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 08:28:01 +0000, Jeff Layman <***@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
[snip}

Post by Jeff Layman
Scala Radio was renamed to "Magic Classical" on 16 September last year.
Who knew?... Unfortunately my radios are only DAB, so DAB+ stations are
not available.
I listen to Classic FM when driving or in the early hours. Before the
advent of Classic FM I used to listen to Radio 3, but found its
inclusion of very modern music (mainly dissonant) offputting*. And I'm
afraid that I don't have the patience to listen to anything more than
around 90 minutes long (Baroque music excepted), so complete operas
remain unappreciated.
*(A hangover from when I started listening to classical music in the
late 60s. My friends - who had introduced me to it - and I would
regularly go to the RFH to listen to the great orchestras with sometimes
legendary conductors. I'm afraid that none of us cared for the
infrequent starting piece when it was tagged as "first performance". My
philistine comment for many of these was "has the orchestra finished
tuning up yet?").

My mum was an actress and my dad used to refer to the interval and the
end as 'half time' and 'full time' respectively just to annoy my mum.

[charles]

Post by Jeff Layman

Post by tony sayer

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and
LW stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of
spare parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent
from new cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations
are online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting
or even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or
4g dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like
there is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

a great many years ago, one Radio 3 FM transmitter was radiating carrier
only (no modulation) for at least 3 weeks before anybody noticed,

***

Post by charles
There was
also a similar fault affecting the north of Scotland - one person
complained. I got that fault fixed within hours!
Sadly Radio 3 doesn't have that many listeners

Mores the pity its on my car radio a lot of the time:)..
Mind you a couple of professional classical muso's i know reckon its
been dumbed down to try and compete with Classic FM and Scala which it
need not do, its from proper serious classical music..

Scala Radio was renamed to "Magic Classical" on 16 September last year.
Who knew?... Unfortunately my radios are only DAB, so DAB+ stations are
not available.
I listen to Classic FM when driving or in the early hours. Before the
advent of Classic FM I used to listen to Radio 3, but found its
inclusion of very modern music (mainly dissonant) offputting*. And I'm
afraid that I don't have the patience to listen to anything more than
around 90 minutes long (Baroque music excepted), so complete operas
remain unappreciated.

attended a concert in the Barbican a few years ago which began with a new
work. In the interval, a young man (probably a music student) exclaimed as
he reached the next table: "That was rubbish!". I mentioned this to my,
then, music teacher, who told me that the whole Orchestra throught that,
too, but they played it because they were paid to do so.

Post by Jeff Layman
*(A hangover from when I started listening to classical music in the
late 60s. My friends - who had introduced me to it - and I would
regularly go to the RFH to listen to the great orchestras with sometimes
legendary conductors. I'm afraid that none of us cared for the
infrequent starting piece when it was tagged as "first performance". My
philistine comment for many of these was "has the orchestra finished
tuning up yet?").

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by Jeff Layman
I'm afraid that none of us cared for the
infrequent starting piece when it was tagged as "first performance". My
philistine comment for many of these was "has the orchestra finished
tuning up yet?"

There's a reason why some works are called classics. It's because they
have stood the test of time.

Rod.

[JMB99]

Post by Scott
Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

Isn't that so they can add Radio Cymru so no actual transmitters have
closed down?

[Scott]

Post by JMB99

Post by Scott
Radio 3 has been removed from some transmitters in Wales.

Isn't that so they can add Radio Cymru so no actual transmitters have
closed down?

I tried to choose my words carefully.

[charles]

Post by JMB99

Post by SH
I notice there is no discussion about the future of LW, MW, FM and DAB.....
DRM does not seem to have taken off in the UK and the current MW and LW
stations appear to be closing down slowly due to the scarcity of spare
parts for the TXes and LW and MW support is probably now absent from
new cars along with the CD player.
FM has been around for at least 40 odd years, the roll out of DAB
predates the roll out of DTT / OnDigital
So why all these proposals to wind down Freeview and Freesat in favour
of online streaming?
Why can't the same be said for FM & DAB as all their radio stations are
online as well ( and simulcasted on Freeview & Freesat?
Afteer all, new car ICE systems now support WiFi and/or hot-spotting or
even a 4g dongle.... so radio can be streamed over one's mobile or 4g
dongle....
Oh wait, could it be to do with the fact that there is no mobile
smartphone network demand for 88 to 108 MHz and 198 - 230 MHz like
there is for 470 to 598 MHz?
Moi being cynical????? Nah! :-)

VHF FM is more like 70+ years old in the UK and longer in the USA.

Certainly, I had a home-made tuner from a PW article at university in 1959.

Post by JMB99
What VHF FM transmitters have closed down? Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

[Mark Carver]

What VHF FM transmitters have closed down?  Not heard of the BBC closing
any.

Ofcom have recetly given approval for Radio Pembrokeshire to close two
of their FM relays (Fishguard and Tenby). This is because the national
FM antenna at Haverfordwest (that they share with the BBC) is in need of
refurb/repair, and the costs (levied by Arqiva) are so large, they have
opted to decommission the two relays to stay solvent.

Report buried somewhere on the Ofcom site. I think the same parent
company (Nation Radio) are doing similar for one of their stations in
Scotland.

[JMB99]

Post by Mark Carver
Ofcom have recetly given approval for Radio Pembrokeshire to close two
of their FM relays (Fishguard and Tenby). This is because the national
FM antenna at Haverfordwest (that they share with the BBC) is in need of
refurb/repair, and the costs (levied by Arqiva) are so large, they have
opted to decommission the two relays to stay solvent.

I never listen to commercial radio so no interest in what they do.

[Mark Carver]

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Ofcom have recetly given approval for Radio Pembrokeshire to close two
of their FM relays (Fishguard and Tenby). This is because the national
FM antenna at Haverfordwest (that they share with the BBC) is in need
of refurb/repair, and the costs (levied by Arqiva) are so large, they
have opted to decommission the two relays to stay solvent.

I never listen to commercial radio so no interest in what they do.

Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

[Scott]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Ofcom have recetly given approval for Radio Pembrokeshire to close two
of their FM relays (Fishguard and Tenby). This is because the national
FM antenna at Haverfordwest (that they share with the BBC) is in need
of refurb/repair, and the costs (levied by Arqiva) are so large, they
have opted to decommission the two relays to stay solvent.

I never listen to commercial radio so no interest in what they do.

Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

Your helpful comments and subject knowledge are generally appreciated
on the group. Do not be unduly influenced by the comments of one
individual.

[André Coutanche]

Post by Scott

Post by Mark Carver

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Ofcom have recetly given approval for Radio Pembrokeshire to close two
of their FM relays (Fishguard and Tenby). This is because the national
FM antenna at Haverfordwest (that they share with the BBC) is in need
of refurb/repair, and the costs (levied by Arqiva) are so large, they
have opted to decommission the two relays to stay solvent.

I never listen to commercial radio so no interest in what they do.

Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

Your helpful comments and subject knowledge are generally appreciated
on the group. Do not be unduly influenced by the comments of one
individual.

Hear, hear.

André Coutanche

[Java Jive]

Post by André Coutanche

Post by Scott

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

Your helpful comments and subject knowledge are generally appreciated
on the group. Do not be unduly influenced by the comments of one
individual.

Hear, hear.

+1

[JMB99]

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

[Scott]

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).

I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).
I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

The reallocation of some of the Welsh transmitters from Radio 3, to
Radio Wales, was significant, because as far as R3 listeners were
concerned, the FM availability of R3 was removed, so in effect closed.

I can see why the BBC did it, the affected transmitters were in areas of
Wales, where there was little to no hope of commercial local/regional
DAB muxes being extended (which the BBC have to use to provide
local/'national' services on DAB)
The same areas have good DAB coverage of the BBC National mux, so easy
for most R3 listeners to move themselves to DAB to continue with R3.

Also, the Llangollen main station (that also had R3 swapped for Radio
Wales), has a some overlap of coverage with Holme Moss and Sutton
Coldfield, so obviously still some availability of R3 FM in the parts of
Wales it covers.

[Scott]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).
I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

The reallocation of some of the Welsh transmitters from Radio 3, to
Radio Wales, was significant, because as far as R3 listeners were
concerned, the FM availability of R3 was removed, so in effect closed.
I can see why the BBC did it, the affected transmitters were in areas of
Wales, where there was little to no hope of commercial local/regional
DAB muxes being extended (which the BBC have to use to provide
local/'national' services on DAB)
The same areas have good DAB coverage of the BBC National mux, so easy
for most R3 listeners to move themselves to DAB to continue with R3.
Also, the Llangollen main station (that also had R3 swapped for Radio
Wales), has a some overlap of coverage with Holme Moss and Sutton
Coldfield, so obviously still some availability of R3 FM in the parts of
Wales it covers.

Would it also be the case that some listeners in the home (I have
never considered R3 to be in-car entertainment) by using a higher gain
and directional aerial on the roof could continue to receive R3 from
another transmitter?

[Mark Carver]

Post by Scott

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).
I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

The reallocation of some of the Welsh transmitters from Radio 3, to
Radio Wales, was significant, because as far as R3 listeners were
concerned, the FM availability of R3 was removed, so in effect closed.
I can see why the BBC did it, the affected transmitters were in areas of
Wales, where there was little to no hope of commercial local/regional
DAB muxes being extended (which the BBC have to use to provide
local/'national' services on DAB)
The same areas have good DAB coverage of the BBC National mux, so easy
for most R3 listeners to move themselves to DAB to continue with R3.
Also, the Llangollen main station (that also had R3 swapped for Radio
Wales), has a some overlap of coverage with Holme Moss and Sutton
Coldfield, so obviously still some availability of R3 FM in the parts of
Wales it covers.

Would it also be the case that some listeners in the home (I have
never considered R3 to be in-car entertainment) by using a higher gain
and directional aerial on the roof could continue to receive R3 from
another transmitter?

Yes, though the days of people having rooftop FM aerials, connected to a
HiFi tuner are long gone. I'm not sure it was ever that much of 'a thing'.

I'm sure 99% migrated to DAB, or a 'Smart Speaker'

[Tweed]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).
I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

The reallocation of some of the Welsh transmitters from Radio 3, to
Radio Wales, was significant, because as far as R3 listeners were
concerned, the FM availability of R3 was removed, so in effect closed.
I can see why the BBC did it, the affected transmitters were in areas of
Wales, where there was little to no hope of commercial local/regional
DAB muxes being extended (which the BBC have to use to provide
local/'national' services on DAB)
The same areas have good DAB coverage of the BBC National mux, so easy
for most R3 listeners to move themselves to DAB to continue with R3.
Also, the Llangollen main station (that also had R3 swapped for Radio
Wales), has a some overlap of coverage with Holme Moss and Sutton
Coldfield, so obviously still some availability of R3 FM in the parts of
Wales it covers.

Would it also be the case that some listeners in the home (I have
never considered R3 to be in-car entertainment) by using a higher gain
and directional aerial on the roof could continue to receive R3 from
another transmitter?

Yes, though the days of people having rooftop FM aerials, connected to a
HiFi tuner are long gone. I'm not sure it was ever that much of 'a thing'.
I'm sure 99% migrated to DAB, or a 'Smart Speaker'

Or an Internet connected radio such as my Roberts. Then you can find much
better European classical music stations as well and not bother with R3.

[tony sayer]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).
I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

The reallocation of some of the Welsh transmitters from Radio 3, to
Radio Wales, was significant, because as far as R3 listeners were
concerned, the FM availability of R3 was removed, so in effect closed.
I can see why the BBC did it, the affected transmitters were in areas of
Wales, where there was little to no hope of commercial local/regional
DAB muxes being extended (which the BBC have to use to provide
local/'national' services on DAB)
The same areas have good DAB coverage of the BBC National mux, so easy
for most R3 listeners to move themselves to DAB to continue with R3.
Also, the Llangollen main station (that also had R3 swapped for Radio
Wales), has a some overlap of coverage with Holme Moss and Sutton
Coldfield, so obviously still some availability of R3 FM in the parts of
Wales it covers.

Would it also be the case that some listeners in the home (I have
never considered R3 to be in-car entertainment) by using a higher gain
and directional aerial on the roof could continue to receive R3 from
another transmitter?

Yes, though the days of people having rooftop FM aerials, connected to a
HiFi tuner are long gone. I'm not sure it was ever that much of 'a thing'.

Still got one here just re-furbed a Yamaha CT-7000 very old design but
makes the best use of the signals it gets and sounds superb esp on R3

Its soon the be paired with a FUBA UK-8 aerial that I've had a local
metal workshop supply all the bits for just used NEC to tweak it to the
upper end of Band two and to got a rotator for 80 odd quid on fleabay.
There is a good reason for doing all that ..


https://www.fmtunerinfo.com/yamaha.html

[charles]

Post by Scott

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).
I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

The reallocation of some of the Welsh transmitters from Radio 3, to
Radio Wales, was significant, because as far as R3 listeners were
concerned, the FM availability of R3 was removed, so in effect closed.
I can see why the BBC did it, the affected transmitters were in areas of
Wales, where there was little to no hope of commercial local/regional
DAB muxes being extended (which the BBC have to use to provide
local/'national' services on DAB)
The same areas have good DAB coverage of the BBC National mux, so easy
for most R3 listeners to move themselves to DAB to continue with R3.
Also, the Llangollen main station (that also had R3 swapped for Radio
Wales), has a some overlap of coverage with Holme Moss and Sutton
Coldfield, so obviously still some availability of R3 FM in the parts of
Wales it covers.

Would it also be the case that some listeners in the home (I have
never considered R3 to be in-car entertainment) by using a higher gain
and directional aerial on the roof could continue to receive R3 from
another transmitter?

If that was the case, then the relays never would have been built. In
Scotland an extra service was added to the FM transmitter sites for Radio
nan Gael, but the Freeview version of R3 goes away in the evenings for BBC
Alba tv.

[Scott]

Post by charles

Post by Scott

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by JMB99

Post by Mark Carver
Well, you did ask, and I gave you an answer FFS, I think I've had enough
of this group now

I specifically wrote that I had not heard of any BBC transmitters being
closed.

I may be to blame for this confusion. I mentioned the removal (I used
that word advisedly) of Radio 3 from some transmitters in Wales as an
aside. I recognise this removal does not mean closure as (a) the
transmitters continued to broadcast other BBC stations, and (b) R3 was
replaced by Radio Wales (I believe, not Radio Cymru).
I accept this did not represent the closure of any transmitter, just a
general contribution to a conversation. I think part of the nature of
a newsgroup is that people will digress from time to time. I think we
need to learn to skim-read and ignore what is not of interest.

The reallocation of some of the Welsh transmitters from Radio 3, to
Radio Wales, was significant, because as far as R3 listeners were
concerned, the FM availability of R3 was removed, so in effect closed.
I can see why the BBC did it, the affected transmitters were in areas of
Wales, where there was little to no hope of commercial local/regional
DAB muxes being extended (which the BBC have to use to provide
local/'national' services on DAB)
The same areas have good DAB coverage of the BBC National mux, so easy
for most R3 listeners to move themselves to DAB to continue with R3.
Also, the Llangollen main station (that also had R3 swapped for Radio
Wales), has a some overlap of coverage with Holme Moss and Sutton
Coldfield, so obviously still some availability of R3 FM in the parts of
Wales it covers.

Would it also be the case that some listeners in the home (I have
never considered R3 to be in-car entertainment) by using a higher gain
and directional aerial on the roof could continue to receive R3 from
another transmitter?

If that was the case, then the relays never would have been built. In
Scotland an extra service was added to the FM transmitter sites for Radio
nan Gael, but the Freeview version of R3 goes away in the evenings for BBC
Alba tv.

I believe - though I may be mistaken - that the relays aim at
providing coverage for portable radios (with aerial extended) and in
cars. I think more of a 'DX' approach was taken in the past with
aerials. I cannot think of anywhere I have ever lived where the BBC FM
stations have not been available on more than one frequency.

[JMB99]

Post by Scott
I cannot think of anywhere I have ever lived where the BBC FM
stations have not been available on more than one frequency.

Coverage is good but plenty of places where it is poor, just drive up
the A82 or A9!

[Scott]

Post by JMB99

Post by Scott
I cannot think of anywhere I have ever lived where the BBC FM
stations have not been available on more than one frequency.

Coverage is good but plenty of places where it is poor, just drive up
the A82 or A9!

But do relays not tend to cover localised areas? How helpful would
relays be on the A9 (even with RDS)? My car tends to stick to the main
transmitter most of the time. Anyway, I was referring to a roof aerial
in a house.

[JMB99]

Post by Scott
But do relays not tend to cover localised areas? How helpful would
relays be on the A9 (even with RDS)? My car tends to stick to the main
transmitter most of the time. Anyway, I was referring to a roof aerial
in a house.

The clue is in the name. Relays relay whatever they got from the parent
transmitter. Earlier ones were transposers and did not even go down to
baseband, but now it is usual to have effectively a receiver and
transmitter or at least was a few years ago :-)

[Woody]

Post by Scott
But do relays not tend to cover localised areas? How helpful would
relays be on the A9 (even with RDS)? My car tends to stick to the main
transmitter most of the time. Anyway, I was referring to a roof aerial
in a house.

The clue is in the name.  Relays relay whatever they got from the parent
transmitter.  Earlier ones were transposers and did not even go down to
baseband, but now it is usual to have effectively a receiver and
transmitter or at least was a few years ago :-)

Most of the low power relays in use post DSO are single unit high trays
of 20W or 50W with everything on-board.It had two stored settings, one
for receive and one for transmit. Pre DSO the first setting would
receive analogue and the second would transmit the analogue. On the
night or morning of DSO a tech would visit the site and switch the
receive to digital (plus any Rx frequency change required if the source
station had had a frequency change) and switch the transmit to digital,
again with any frequency or power changes as required. The whole
changeover would take less than an hour and once the NCC had decided
that all was correct and that the site was communicating with the NCC,
the tech moved on to another site. All changes etc were software controlled.

Having these trays on site sometimes weeks before DSO had benefits. I
remember being called out to a site when a PSU for the BBC2 relay
transmitter failed. I could have driven back to my base, found a PSU and
returned to site to apply the fix. The alternative - which I did - was
to unpack the BBC2 tray in the adjacent cabin and install it in place.
Given it was already programmed and ready to go, BBC2 was back on air in
little more than a half hour. Good job as it was a night when we had
significant snow!

[Scott]

Post by Woody

Post by Scott
But do relays not tend to cover localised areas? How helpful would
relays be on the A9 (even with RDS)? My car tends to stick to the main
transmitter most of the time. Anyway, I was referring to a roof aerial
in a house.

The clue is in the name.  Relays relay whatever they got from the parent
transmitter.  Earlier ones were transposers and did not even go down to
baseband, but now it is usual to have effectively a receiver and
transmitter or at least was a few years ago :-)

Most of the low power relays in use post DSO are single unit high trays
of 20W or 50W with everything on-board.It had two stored settings, one
for receive and one for transmit. Pre DSO the first setting would
receive analogue and the second would transmit the analogue. On the
night or morning of DSO a tech would visit the site and switch the
receive to digital (plus any Rx frequency change required if the source
station had had a frequency change) and switch the transmit to digital,
again with any frequency or power changes as required. The whole
changeover would take less than an hour and once the NCC had decided
that all was correct and that the site was communicating with the NCC,
the tech moved on to another site. All changes etc were software controlled.
Having these trays on site sometimes weeks before DSO had benefits. I
remember being called out to a site when a PSU for the BBC2 relay
transmitter failed. I could have driven back to my base, found a PSU and
returned to site to apply the fix. The alternative - which I did - was
to unpack the BBC2 tray in the adjacent cabin and install it in place.
Given it was already programmed and ready to go, BBC2 was back on air in
little more than a half hour. Good job as it was a night when we had
significant snow!

The context was replacing Radio 3 at some transmitters in Wales with
Radio Wales. Radio may be different to TV as there is no switch-over
involved.

[JMB99]

Post by Woody
Most of the low power relays in use post DSO are single unit high trays
of 20W or 50W with everything on-board.

I was responding to a comment about RDS i.e. VHF FM relays.

[JMB99]

Post by charles
but the Freeview version of R3 goes away in the evenings for BBC
Alba tv

Along with most of the radio services on Freeview.

[Brian Gregory]

Post by Tweed
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

The HD channels won't fit on the existing BBC-A DVB-T multiplex. AIUI
You really need DVB-T2 to have enough bandwidth for HD.

[Tweed]

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by Tweed
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

The HD channels won't fit on the existing BBC-A DVB-T multiplex. AIUI
You really need DVB-T2 to have enough bandwidth for HD.

What’s to stop BBC-A being converted to T2?

[Mark Carver]

Post by Tweed

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by Tweed
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

The HD channels won't fit on the existing BBC-A DVB-T multiplex. AIUI
You really need DVB-T2 to have enough bandwidth for HD.

What’s to stop BBC-A being converted to T2?

Punters with only T1 receivers

[Tweed]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Tweed

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by Tweed
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

The HD channels won't fit on the existing BBC-A DVB-T multiplex. AIUI
You really need DVB-T2 to have enough bandwidth for HD.

What’s to stop BBC-A being converted to T2?

Punters with only T1 receivers

Presumably that’s why the BBC is playing chicken with OfCom and by
extension the government. Give us the necessary licence fee increase or the
T1 sets get it, with the risk of Starmer kills pensioners’ TV sets
headlines.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Tweed

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Tweed

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by Tweed
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

The HD channels won't fit on the existing BBC-A DVB-T multiplex. AIUI
You really need DVB-T2 to have enough bandwidth for HD.

What’s to stop BBC-A being converted to T2?

Punters with only T1 receivers

Presumably that’s why the BBC is playing chicken with OfCom and by
extension the government. Give us the necessary licence fee increase or the
T1 sets get it, with the risk of Starmer kills pensioners’ TV sets
headlines.

It's an extraordinary state of affairs, that we've reached the point
where the BBC might be thinking about abandoning terrestrial broadcasting.

Presumably the BBC's Coat-of-arms will be modified to show the lion
clutching a Firestick ?

[Tweed]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Tweed

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Tweed

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by Tweed
https://retra.co.uk/news/timeline-of-changes-to-freeview-and-satellite-tv
2026
BBC-B (PSB3) Freeview multiplex licence expires; The BBC has two Freeview
multiplexes – one linked to the Royal Charter (BBC-A/PSB1) and is used for
SD channels, and a second – BBC-B/PSB3 – for HD channels. In 2026, the
BBC-B licence expires. But the BBC has indicated to the DCMS it won’t
decide on renewing it yet. Depending on Ofcom’s review of Freeview and the
future of the BBC beyond the end of the Royal Charter, the closure of BBC-B
could be used as an opportunity to close SD channels, migrating BBC HD
channels to BBC-A.
In other words, an excuse for dumping the SD channels on Freeview, which is
going to happen at some point anyway. How long do you keep running SD to
keep some aged TV sets alive?

The HD channels won't fit on the existing BBC-A DVB-T multiplex. AIUI
You really need DVB-T2 to have enough bandwidth for HD.

What’s to stop BBC-A being converted to T2?

Punters with only T1 receivers

Presumably that’s why the BBC is playing chicken with OfCom and by
extension the government. Give us the necessary licence fee increase or the
T1 sets get it, with the risk of Starmer kills pensioners’ TV sets
headlines.

It's an extraordinary state of affairs, that we've reached the point
where the BBC might be thinking about abandoning terrestrial broadcasting.
Presumably the BBC's Coat-of-arms will be modified to show the lion
clutching a Firestick ?

I think they only want to get out of T1 broadcasts, not T2. I guess the
real question is how long do you keep T1 running? 405 line TV was kept
going for a remarkably long time, about 16 years from the start of BBC1 625
line service if I’ve got my sums correct. Hang on, if we take the 625 line
switch off date as 2012, add 16, we get 2028….

[Spike]

Post by Mark Carver
It's an extraordinary state of affairs, that we've reached the point
where the BBC might be thinking about abandoning terrestrial broadcasting.

I’ll bet the BBC isn’t the only broadcaster willing to ditch terrestrial
TV.

As an example of one:

- Three of the four TVs in our house have no aerial connected; the fourth
has an inherited satellite feed.

- We very rarely watch live TV

Post by Mark Carver
Presumably the BBC's Coat-of-arms will be modified to show the lion
clutching a Firestick ?

More likely the BBC’s lion will be clutching straws, as people turn away
from the BBC’s wokery.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Spike

Post by Mark Carver
It's an extraordinary state of affairs, that we've reached the point
where the BBC might be thinking about abandoning terrestrial broadcasting.

I’ll bet the BBC isn’t the only broadcaster willing to ditch terrestrial
TV.

Sky seem to be wanting to ditch satellite, every time I walk past their
booth in a shopping centre, they're promoting "dishless" STBs ...

[Bob Latham]

Post by Andy Burns
Sky seem to be wanting to ditch satellite, every time I walk past
their booth in a shopping centre, they're promoting "dishless"
STBs ...

I'm guessing that from a Sky POV there is then:

No need for technicians to get the ladders out and fix dishes up.
Just post a box out to customers.
No hard drive to go faulty.
No fast foreword through adverts so more revenue.
No complaints about the heavy rain or snow killing the service.

Eventually of course you can stop paying for satellite services too.

Bob.

[Scott]

Post by Mark Carver
It's an extraordinary state of affairs, that we've reached the point
where the BBC might be thinking about abandoning terrestrial broadcasting.

I’ll bet the BBC isn’t the only broadcaster willing to ditch terrestrial
TV.
- Three of the four TVs in our house have no aerial connected; the fourth
has an inherited satellite feed.
- We very rarely watch live TV

Post by Mark Carver
Presumably the BBC's Coat-of-arms will be modified to show the lion
clutching a Firestick ?

More likely the BBC’s lion will be clutching straws, as people turn away
from the BBC’s wokery.

But politically and practically can they do this? There must be a
section of the population who pay the TV licence, watch the TV but
have no broadband, IT infrastructure or computer skills. Will they not
simply stop paying the licence fee to the detriment of the BBC's
finances?

[Roderick Stewart]

On Mon, 06 Jan 2025 15:21:31 +0000, Scott

Post by Scott

More likely the BBC’s lion will be clutching straws, as people turn away
from the BBC’s wokery.

But politically and practically can they do this? There must be a
section of the population who pay the TV licence, watch the TV but
have no broadband, IT infrastructure or computer skills. Will they not
simply stop paying the licence fee to the detriment of the BBC's
finances?

Not legally, as the law stands at the moment. You should have a TV
licence to watch any 'live'* broadcast on any device, though in
practice if you receive it via an aerial (i.e. not via the internet)
and you never engage in conversation with the 'inspectors' or
'enforcement officers' or whatever they call themselves, there's no
way they could know.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should break the law of course, just
saying that in reality, subject to the above, it's unenforceable.

* The modern meaning of 'live' appears to be quite different from what
it meant when television started. It used to mean that what was on the
screen was actually happening as you were watching it, and was not a
recording of something that had happened previously. Now that nearly
everything is a recording, for licensing purposes it seems to mean
that what you are watching is being transmitted on one of the
traditional mainstream broadcasting services, even if you are watching
it via the internet, as can be done with some services. (How you are
supposed to know this if you only have internet services and no longer
receive broadcasts is not clear).

If you have fast enough internet to make use of streaming services,
just avoid the BBC and any 'live' broadcasts, and you should be
perfectly legal without a licence. There's plenty of other stuff to
watch. As time goes on, I think this will gradually become the normal
way of watching television, and unlike the case with broadcast
transmissions, which /all/ require a licence, on internet streaming
services only /some/ programmes require a licence. The licence, in its
current form, will gradually become untenable. Roll on 2027.

Rod.

[Scott]

On Mon, 06 Jan 2025 18:53:11 +0000, Roderick Stewart

Post by Roderick Stewart
On Mon, 06 Jan 2025 15:21:31 +0000, Scott

Post by Scott

More likely the BBC’s lion will be clutching straws, as people turn away
from the BBC’s wokery.

But politically and practically can they do this? There must be a
section of the population who pay the TV licence, watch the TV but
have no broadband, IT infrastructure or computer skills. Will they not
simply stop paying the licence fee to the detriment of the BBC's
finances?

Not legally, as the law stands at the moment. You should have a TV
licence to watch any 'live'* broadcast on any device, though in
practice if you receive it via an aerial (i.e. not via the internet)
and you never engage in conversation with the 'inspectors' or
'enforcement officers' or whatever they call themselves, there's no
way they could know.

I think you have misread my posting. Someone with no broadband, IT
infrastructure or computer skills - and no working TV - will not be
watching any broadcast live or otherwise.

[Spike]

Post by Roderick Stewart
On Mon, 06 Jan 2025 15:21:31 +0000, Scott

Post by Scott

More likely the BBC’s lion will be clutching straws, as people turn away
from the BBC’s wokery.

But politically and practically can they do this? There must be a
section of the population who pay the TV licence, watch the TV but
have no broadband, IT infrastructure or computer skills. Will they not
simply stop paying the licence fee to the detriment of the BBC's
finances?

Not legally, as the law stands at the moment. You should have a TV
licence to watch any 'live'* broadcast on any device, though in
practice if you receive it via an aerial (i.e. not via the internet)
and you never engage in conversation with the 'inspectors' or
'enforcement officers' or whatever they call themselves, there's no
way they could know.
I'm not suggesting that anyone should break the law of course, just
saying that in reality, subject to the above, it's unenforceable.

First hit on a DuckDuckGo search included this:

“In the year to June 2022, more than 47,500 people were prosecuted and more
than 44,000 were convicted for failing to pay for a £159 TV Licence,
according to a TalkTV investigation.”

[…]

[Bob Latham]

”In the year to June 2022, more than 47,500 people were prosecuted
and more than 44,000 were convicted for failing to pay for a £159
TV Licence, according to a TalkTV investigation.•

Most of them women on very low incomes suffering this pernicious tax
in order to pay for channels that swamp them in propaganda.

Bob.

[JMB99]

Post by Spike
I’ll bet the BBC isn’t the only broadcaster willing to ditch terrestrial
TV.

What are the figures now for different transmission systems?

[Brian Gregory]

Post by Tweed
What’s to stop BBC-A being converted to T2?

I've no idea. Maybe nothing.