Top Up TV to only be 4 streams.

[Russell]

Looks like there will only be 4 streams (3 on Mux A and one supplied by
Channel 4) carrying "elements" from Sky One, UK Gold, E4, TCM, Cartoon
Network, Bloomberg and Decovery.

Timeshare-me-do.

Full story: http://www.dtg.org.uk/latest/latest_top_up.htm

Russell

[Russell]

Post by Russell
Network, Bloomberg and Decovery.

Should be Discovery.

I can't spell.

Russell

[Mat Overton]

Freeview the UK's free-to-air DTT service has had a busy week!

First, TV Travel Shop came off air on February. 1. Then news broke that
Matthew Seaman, Freeview's general manager and only in post for a year, was
quitting. Finally, it emerged that David Chance and Ian West, two
highly-regarded former senior staffers at BSkyB, were behind a new DTT
concept: Top-Up TV.
In truth the three events are wholly related. The pair - plus new hiring
Matthew Seaman - are to launch Top-Up TV, a sort of 'pay-TV-Lite' bouquet of
day-part channels onto Freeview, and will use TV Travel Shop's bandwidth.
Top-Up TV will carry elements from Sky One, E4, UK Gold, TCM, Cartoon
Network, UK Gold, Discovery and Bloomberg. Top-Up TV, which will cost around
£8-£10 per month, will be offered initially to Freeview viewers who use old
ITV Digital boxes. And there's the rub. The service can only be received on
these ancient boxes because they're the only ones with a smart card slot,
and Messrs Chance and West need to levy between £8-£10 a month for their
service. At best, there are about 800,000 ONdigital boxes left out there,
and some purely anecdotal stories suggest far fewer are located in the main
viewing room, many having been relegated to kids bedrooms and the like.
Moreover, Chance and West still face a few hurdles, not least persuading the
BBC-backed consortium to recognise the service. Top-Up's target audience is
a reported 300,000 subs, and Top Up is said to be considering supplying
low-cost 'sidecar' smart-card readers to the other 2 million-odd Freeview
homes without smart card-equipped boxes. Their pay service will carry four
streams (three from the SDN/C5 Multiplex A, plus one from C4). It is not
totally clear whether these plans eliminate C5's plan from a second service
down the line. But use of C4's 'spare' stream will not impact its plan to
launch More4 this coming winter.



Channel 4 has space for three services on it's mux having around 15MB/s to
play with plus "4Text" suggesting "Channel 4", "E4" and "More4" on Mux 2
using QAM64. That is assuming they don't plan to launch "Film Four" in place
of "More4". They have plenty of space, so each could remain constant bit
rate, or stat mux "E4" and "More4 / Film Four" as "Channel 4" will have to
remain constant for regional advertising.

[ChrisM]

Post by Mat Overton
Freeview the UK's free-to-air DTT service has had a busy week!
First, TV Travel Shop came off air on February. 1. Then news broke
that Matthew Seaman, Freeview's general manager and only in post for
a year, was quitting. Finally, it emerged that David Chance and Ian
West, two highly-regarded former senior staffers at BSkyB, were
behind a new DTT concept: Top-Up TV.
In truth the three events are wholly related. The pair - plus new
hiring Matthew Seaman - are to launch Top-Up TV, a sort of
'pay-TV-Lite' bouquet of day-part channels onto Freeview, and will
use TV Travel Shop's bandwidth. Top-Up TV will carry elements from
Sky One, E4, UK Gold, TCM, Cartoon Network, UK Gold, Discovery and
Bloomberg. Top-Up TV, which will cost around £8-£10 per month, will
be offered initially to Freeview viewers who use old ITV Digital
boxes. And there's the rub. The service can only be received on these
ancient boxes because they're the only ones with a smart card slot,
and Messrs Chance and West need to levy between £8-£10 a month for
their service. At best, there are about 800,000 ONdigital boxes left
out there, and some purely anecdotal stories suggest far fewer are
located in the main viewing room, many having been relegated to kids
bedrooms and the like. Moreover, Chance and West still face a few
hurdles, not least persuading the BBC-backed consortium to recognise
the service. Top-Up's target audience is a reported 300,000 subs, and
Top Up is said to be considering supplying low-cost 'sidecar'
smart-card readers to the other 2 million-odd Freeview homes without
smart card-equipped boxes. Their pay service will carry four streams
(three from the SDN/C5 Multiplex A, plus one from C4). It is not
totally clear whether these plans eliminate C5's plan from a second
service down the line. But use of C4's 'spare' stream will not impact
its plan to launch More4 this coming winter.
Channel 4 has space for three services on it's mux having around
15MB/s to play with plus "4Text" suggesting "Channel 4", "E4" and
"More4" on Mux 2 using QAM64. That is assuming they don't plan to
launch "Film Four" in place of "More4". They have plenty of space, so
each could remain constant bit rate, or stat mux "E4" and "More4 /
Film Four" as "Channel 4" will have to remain constant for regional
advertising.

everyone is saying only ondodgy boxes have a cart slot, this is so wrong, my
old box (non sub bought) had a card slot, my current box which i bought 2
months ago has a card slot, neither are ondigital or itv digital boxes!
someone (not blaiming you) hasnt done there research

[rich a]

Post by ChrisM
everyone is saying only ondodgy boxes have a cart slot, this is so
wrong, my old box (non sub bought) had a card slot, my current box
which i bought 2 months ago has a card slot, neither are ondigital or
itv digital boxes! someone (not blaiming you) hasnt done there
research

Your fleeview box has a card slot? Or does it have a cam slot? I wonder
if TOPUPTV will issue cams, or whether we'll see a rush for 'em on ebay...

To be honest, I think they're flogging a dead horse by attempting to play
with the old ondigital encryption system - it was cracked yonks ago, and
quite a lot of their potential customers will be pikeys with all their
dodgy pirate card kits from the old days.

PIKEYS!

[l***@eternal-flames.gov]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:35 GMT, as the pitiful wreck that had once

Post by ChrisM
everyone is saying only ondodgy boxes have a cart slot, this is so wrong, my
old box (non sub bought) had a card slot, my current box which i bought 2
months ago has a card slot, neither are ondigital or itv digital boxes!
someone (not blaiming you) hasnt done there research

Have you done your research?

Have you opened up either of those boxes and checked to see if there
is anything connected to the slot inside it?

Old Nick.

[ChrisM]

Post by l***@eternal-flames.gov
On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:35 GMT, as the pitiful wreck that had once

Post by ChrisM
everyone is saying only ondodgy boxes have a cart slot, this is so
wrong, my old box (non sub bought) had a card slot, my current box
which i bought 2 months ago has a card slot, neither are ondigital
or itv digital boxes! someone (not blaiming you) hasnt done there
research

Have you done your research?
Have you opened up either of those boxes and checked to see if there
is anything connected to the slot inside it?
Old Nick.

no, it mentions it in the manual though

[l***@eternal-flames.gov]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:42:10 GMT, as the pitiful wreck that had once

Post by ChrisM
no, it mentions it in the manual though

If it just says something along the lines of "this slot is where you
insert your viewing card"

That means nothing. These boxes are made for worldwide markets. They
change the circuit-board inside, but seldom muck about with the
case... apart from paint jobs and badges.

Same with the manuals. They just change the bits that really need to
be changed.

Nick.

[ChrisM]

Post by l***@eternal-flames.gov

Post by ChrisM
no, it mentions it in the manual though

If it just says something along the lines of "this slot is where you
insert your viewing card"
That means nothing. These boxes are made for worldwide markets. They
change the circuit-board inside, but seldom muck about with the
case... apart from paint jobs and badges.
Same with the manuals. They just change the bits that really need to
be changed.
Nick.

the pace twin was designed for the uk market afaik, but i understand this
could happen with the cheap boxes.

[l***@eternal-flames.gov]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 23:47:25 GMT, as the pitiful wreck that had once

Post by ChrisM
the pace twin was designed for the uk market afaik, but i understand this
could happen with the cheap boxes.

You should have said you had a Pace Twin.

I've got one and there's a lot of empty space around the card-reader,
which looks as though it was intended for decoder components to be
soldered in, had they been needed for the UK market.

[R W]

Post by l***@eternal-flames.gov
On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 23:47:25 GMT, as the pitiful wreck that had once

Post by ChrisM
the pace twin was designed for the uk market afaik, but i understand
this could happen with the cheap boxes.

You should have said you had a Pace Twin.
I've got one and there's a lot of empty space around the card-reader,
which looks as though it was intended for decoder components to be
soldered in, had they been needed for the UK market.

The pace twin uses the same chassis, mainboard and case as the new sky+
boxen.

[l***@eternal-flames.gov]

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:10:48 -0000, as the pitiful wreck that had once

Post by R W
The pace twin uses the same chassis, mainboard and case as the new sky+
boxen.

Which sort of proves the point.

The card-slot may be there, but they don't connect decoder circuitry
because the basic board/case is/can be, used for many different
services worldwide.

Nick.

[Les Hellawell]

Post by ChrisM
everyone is saying only ondodgy boxes have a cart slot, this is so wrong, my
old box (non sub bought) had a card slot, my current box which i bought 2
months ago has a card slot, neither are ondigital or itv digital boxes!
someone (not blaiming you) hasnt done there research

My IDTV has a card slot. Won't be using it though - never did, except
for first year when it was free. Even then I thought it was poor value
for money.

Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

Les Hellawell
greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

[Dave Fawthrop]

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:23:56 +0000, Les Hellawell
<***@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:

| On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:06:35 GMT, "ChrisM" <***@someplace.co> wrote:
|
| >everyone is saying only ondodgy boxes have a cart slot, this is so wrong, my
| >old box (non sub bought) had a card slot, my current box which i bought 2
| >months ago has a card slot, neither are ondigital or itv digital boxes!
| >someone (not blaiming you) hasnt done there research
| >
| My IDTV has a card slot. Won't be using it though - never did, except
| for first year when it was free. Even then I thought it was poor value
| for money.
|
| Les Hellawell
| greetings from
| YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

There speaks a true Tyke ;-)

[Bill]

Post by Dave Fawthrop
| My IDTV has a card slot. Won't be using it though - never did, except
| for first year when it was free. Even then I thought it was poor value
| for money.
|
| Les Hellawell
| greetings from
| YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
There speaks a true Tyke ;-)

Seconded

Bill
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/index.html

[Dave Walker]

Post by Russell
Looks like there will only be 4 streams (3 on Mux A and one supplied by
Channel 4) carrying "elements" from Sky One, UK Gold, E4, TCM, Cartoon
Network, Bloomberg and Decovery.
Timeshare-me-do.
Full story: http://www.dtg.org.uk/latest/latest_top_up.htm
Russell

Even sk$ looks good value compared to that proposal.

[Lee@DVDDebate]

Post by Dave Walker

Post by Russell
Looks like there will only be 4 streams (3 on Mux A and one supplied by
Channel 4) carrying "elements" from Sky One, UK Gold, E4, TCM, Cartoon
Network, Bloomberg and Decovery.
Timeshare-me-do.
Full story: http://www.dtg.org.uk/latest/latest_top_up.htm

Even sk$ looks good value compared to that proposal.

Not really, $ky costs twice what they want for this Pay-Lite thing. £10
for 6-7 watchable channels or £20 for 6-7 watchable channels plus 100
more channels of shit? I know which I'd prefer.

Lee.

[Chris p]

Post by ***@DVDDebate

Post by Dave Walker

Post by Russell
Looks like there will only be 4 streams (3 on Mux A and one supplied by
Channel 4) carrying "elements" from Sky One, UK Gold, E4, TCM, Cartoon
Network, Bloomberg and Decovery.
Timeshare-me-do.
Full story: http://www.dtg.org.uk/latest/latest_top_up.htm

Even sk$ looks good value compared to that proposal.

Not really, $ky costs twice what they want for this Pay-Lite thing. £10
for 6-7 watchable channels or £20 for 6-7 watchable channels plus 100
more channels of shit? I know which I'd prefer.
Lee.

the one with the free shit ;)

[Mat Overton]

Post by Chris p

Post by ***@DVDDebate
Not really, $ky costs twice what they want for this Pay-Lite thing. £10
for 6-7 watchable channels or £20 for 6-7 watchable channels plus 100
more channels of shit? I know which I'd prefer.
Lee.

the one with the free shit ;)

Don't knock the free shit...... I spent a great afternoon watching the god
channel's coverage of the abundent life centre in Bradford. It was the
funniest thing I've seen in ages! I think the BBC should sho the highlights
in place of all these failed sitcoms. Prayse the laaaard!

[Chris]

hmm, lets see..

Post by Russell

Post by Russell
Channel 4) carrying "elements" from Sky One,

nah, not worth paying for

Post by Russell
UK Gold,

possibly

Post by Russell
E4, TCM, Cartoon Network,

get all 3 via old cable tv point still :-)

Post by Russell
Bloomberg and Decovery.

bloomberg is news isn't it? , discovery looks good, but prob not worth
paying for

nah, think i'll stick with the free bit of freeview!

[Sam Nelson]

Post by Russell
Looks like there will only be 4 streams (3 on Mux A and one supplied by
Channel 4) carrying "elements" from Sky One, UK Gold, E4, TCM, Cartoon
Network, Bloomberg and Decovery.
Timeshare-me-do.
Full story: http://www.dtg.org.uk/latest/latest_top_up.htm

Looks about as likely to succeed as the squarial.

[ChrisM]

Post by Sam Nelson

Post by Russell
Looks like there will only be 4 streams (3 on Mux A and one supplied
by Channel 4) carrying "elements" from Sky One, UK Gold, E4, TCM,
Cartoon Network, Bloomberg and Decovery.
Timeshare-me-do.
Full story: http://www.dtg.org.uk/latest/latest_top_up.htm

Looks about as likely to succeed as the squarial.

agreed. if they are timesharing they would be better off not getting big
named channels but starting 4 new channels with content from some of these
plus a single movie channel combining the types of films on tcm and sky
movies. they could make 4 excellent channels with as much decent content on
as the sky family pack but in smaller space. for that type of money for so
few channels i'd expect some premium and not just the repeats from all those
channels.

my "idea" would be

(based on 4 streams)

top up movies - a good mix without too many daily repeats of recent (before
bbc/itv show them) and old movies (like sky movies, cinima and tcm combined)
top up entertainment - a mix of uk gold and sky one and e4 programing but a
dedicated 24hr channel
discovery lite - a mix of all the discovery channels (including wings,
animal planet etc). maybe timeshare with somethign else?
cartoon network - running from 6am to 9pm (?) time sharing with top up
entertainment 2 - for more choice in the evenings

that would work better in my oppinion on the limited space and provide
better value and dedicated schedules instead of time sharing would provide
fewer repeats and more overall choice = better value, and no "next on sky
one... oh too bad you dont get sky one its changing over to another
channel!"

Chris

[noone]

It is a truly mad idea, with no chance of success. Who do these people
employ at a cost of k's of cash to advise them. I remember UK Gold
from on-dig days, it was totally unwatchable due to being 50% adverts.

If they truly want a bolt-on service with ANY hope of success, they
should put on 3 film channels like sky box office etc and charge no
more than £9.99/month. Anything else is a waste of time. Anyone who
would pay for such channels + loads of ads is insane.

If people truly NEED to channel surf then they will get sky with its
100+ channels of repeats/nonsense. My personal experience of extra
channels is why bother? The current free channel set is fine as a
'push' medium. If you want more then you are better 'pulling' in your
own content from the video shop or internet etc. The films are a year
newer than the 'premium' channels and no ads.


I hope they do launch it cos it IS doomed, anyone can see that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Global Digital - DVRec
-- Digital Video Recorder/Divx/Mp3 App for Hauppauge, Nebula DTV Cards
DVRec Homepage http://www.global-digital.co.uk/dvrec
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[John Porcella]

Post by noone
If they truly want a bolt-on service with ANY hope of success, they
should put on 3 film channels like sky box office etc and charge no
more than £9.99/month. Anything else is a waste of time. Anyone who
would pay for such channels + loads of ads is insane.
If people truly NEED to channel surf then they will get sky with its
100+ channels of repeats/nonsense.

But there's the rub! Not all of us can get it easily or at all.

[Xbase]

WIll it be worth buying a card programmer?