Cue dot

[Andy Burns]

Just watching the vote result on BBC Parliament, I noticed a sort of cue
dot in the top right corner, not the usual diagonal spinning thing from
commercial breaks years ago, but quite subtle that fades between
black/transparent/white/transparent.

Does it mean anything in particular?

[Mark Carver]

Post by Andy Burns
Just watching the vote result on BBC Parliament, I noticed a sort of cue
dot in the top right corner, not the usual diagonal spinning thing from
commercial breaks years ago, but quite subtle that fades between black/
transparent/white/transparent.
Does it mean anything in particular?

I don't think so. Back in the 70s and 80s the BBC used to use a
static, black and white 'Liquorice Allsort' (to cue in a live studio or OB)

Most ITV companies used a 'barbers pole' style like you describe. Top
right to cue in an ad break, and (not often seen) top left to cue in a
VT or TK insert. YTV and Granada seemed to use a static white box.

Lately, when you do see them on ITV/4/5 they are on ITN news shows and
are the 'Liquorice Allsort' style.

[charles]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Andy Burns
Just watching the vote result on BBC Parliament, I noticed a sort of
cue dot in the top right corner, not the usual diagonal spinning thing
from commercial breaks years ago, but quite subtle that fades between
black/ transparent/white/transparent.
Does it mean anything in particular?

I don't think so. Back in the 70s and 80s the BBC used to use a
static, black and white 'Liquorice Allsort' (to cue in a live studio or OB)

as I remember, from 50+ years ago, it was on at 30 secs to go, off at 10
secs and on again at 5 secs.

[NY]

Post by charles

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Andy Burns
Just watching the vote result on BBC Parliament, I noticed a sort of
cue dot in the top right corner, not the usual diagonal spinning thing
from commercial breaks years ago, but quite subtle that fades between
black/ transparent/white/transparent.
Does it mean anything in particular?

I don't think so. Back in the 70s and 80s the BBC used to use a
static, black and white 'Liquorice Allsort' (to cue in a live studio or OB)

as I remember, from 50+ years ago, it was on at 30 secs to go, off at 10
secs and on again at 5 secs.

Right from when I first became aware of cue dots, I was surprised that
broadcasters used a very obvious in-vision method of cueing, rather than
using one of the invisible lines similar to those used for teletext.

I realise that it was done to allow any TV to be used for cueing, rather
than needing any extra hardware, but was the "any TV" really a
requirement? Were there actually situations when the person being cued
wouldn't have access to what was effectively a teletext decoder and a
display to send a single-byte countdown digit (never any need to give
more than 255 seconds of advanced warning).

[Mark Carver]

Post by NY

Post by charles

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Andy Burns
Just watching the vote result on BBC Parliament, I noticed a sort of
cue dot in the top right corner, not the usual diagonal spinning thing
from commercial breaks years ago, but quite subtle that fades between
black/ transparent/white/transparent.
Does it mean anything in particular?

I don't think so. Back in the 70s and 80s the BBC used to use a
static, black and white 'Liquorice Allsort' (to cue in a live studio or OB)

as I remember, from 50+ years ago, it was on at 30 secs to go, off at 10
secs and on again at 5 secs.

Right from when I first became aware of cue dots, I was surprised that
broadcasters used a very obvious in-vision method of cueing, rather than
using one of the invisible lines similar to those used for teletext.
I realise that it was done to allow any TV to be used for cueing, rather
than needing any extra hardware, but was the "any TV" really a
requirement? Were there actually situations when the person being cued
wouldn't have access to what was effectively a teletext decoder and a
display to send a single-byte countdown digit (never any need to give
more than 255 seconds of advanced warning).

The whole idea of the Cue Dot, was it couldn't get lost, because no
matter what, it's embedded into the active picture area. No other comms
channel required.

ITV have used (last decade) , might still ?, an Axon (now EVS Corp)
product, Invisidot, that used VBI signalling. The problem is the VBI
doesn't get passed by some codecs and distribution systems, so it would
get lost, which rather defeated the object !

Ref pdf Page 42 here
<https://assets.ctfassets.net/870j9u9p7ed7/1Ak1l7Epk3lRnH1mN4fYYq/95dad3072d83ec2ae1cefa22ca3e6fbc/ITV_Live_Programme_Delivery_Specification_Updated_draft_version_6.3_May_2023.pdf>

[charles]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by NY

Post by charles

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Andy Burns
Just watching the vote result on BBC Parliament, I noticed a sort
of cue dot in the top right corner, not the usual diagonal spinning
thing from commercial breaks years ago, but quite subtle that fades
between black/ transparent/white/transparent.
Does it mean anything in particular?

I don't think so. Back in the 70s and 80s the BBC used to use a
static, black and white 'Liquorice Allsort' (to cue in a live studio or OB)

as I remember, from 50+ years ago, it was on at 30 secs to go, off at
10 secs and on again at 5 secs.

Right from when I first became aware of cue dots, I was surprised that
broadcasters used a very obvious in-vision method of cueing, rather
than using one of the invisible lines similar to those used for
teletext.

The cue dot was invented long before signals appeared in the frame
interval. Also, you didn't need any special equipment to receive it, so it
persisted.

Post by Mark Carver

Post by NY
I realise that it was done to allow any TV to be used for cueing,
rather than needing any extra hardware, but was the "any TV" really a
requirement? Were there actually situations when the person being cued
wouldn't have access to what was effectively a teletext decoder and a
display to send a single-byte countdown digit (never any need to give
more than 255 seconds of advanced warning).

The whole idea of the Cue Dot, was it couldn't get lost, because no
matter what, it's embedded into the active picture area. No other comms
channel required.
ITV have used (last decade) , might still ?, an Axon (now EVS Corp)
product, Invisidot, that used VBI signalling. The problem is the VBI
doesn't get passed by some codecs and distribution systems, so it would
get lost, which rather defeated the object !
Ref pdf Page 42 here
<https://assets.ctfassets.net/870j9u9p7ed7/1Ak1l7Epk3lRnH1mN4fYYq/95dad3072d83ec2ae1cefa22ca3e6fbc/ITV_Live_Programme_Delivery_Specification_Updated_draft_version_6.3_May_2023.pdf>

[charles]

Post by NY
Right from when I first became aware of cue dots, I was surprised that
broadcasters used a very obvious in-vision method of cueing, rather than
using one of the invisible lines similar to those used for teletext.

In the olden days, most domestic TV sets didn't display the whole
picture, so it effectively was an 'invisible' signalling system, only
visible to the broadcasters on their underscanned monitors.
I remember noticing the cue dots in the cinema, and being surprised
that apparently nobody else could see them, even when I told them
where to look. Old films that have been digitally restored no longer
have them, so it's evidently easy to remove them.
Rod.

I think they were called "reel change marks"

[NY]

Post by charles

I remember noticing the cue dots in the cinema, and being surprised
that apparently nobody else could see them, even when I told them
where to look. Old films that have been digitally restored no longer
have them, so it's evidently easy to remove them.

I think they were called "reel change marks"

I've always admired the skill of projectionists. They will have a second
projector with a bit of film that overlaps the end of the first
projector, lined up at the cue dot (or several frames in advance, to
allow for human reaction time and run-up time for the motor). And they
will start the second projector when they see the cue dot, so there is a
brief period when both projectors are showing the same bit of film.

But they somehow managed to cap the first projector and uncap the second
one in a way that I was never aware of the changeover: when I saw the
dot I looked out for the changeover and was never able to see it.

Were visible reel-change marks used right up to the end of film in
cinemas, or was an invisible system, using a mark in an invisible track
alongside the frames, used towards the end so the projectors were
started and capped/uncapped automatically?

[charles]

Post by NY

Post by charles

I remember noticing the cue dots in the cinema, and being surprised
that apparently nobody else could see them, even when I told them
where to look. Old films that have been digitally restored no longer
have them, so it's evidently easy to remove them.

I think they were called "reel change marks"

I've always admired the skill of projectionists. They will have a second
projector with a bit of film that overlaps the end of the first
projector, lined up at the cue dot (or several frames in advance, to
allow for human reaction time and run-up time for the motor). And they
will start the second projector when they see the cue dot, so there is a
brief period when both projectors are showing the same bit of film.
But they somehow managed to cap the first projector and uncap the second
one in a way that I was never aware of the changeover: when I saw the
dot I looked out for the changeover and was never able to see it.
Were visible reel-change marks used right up to the end of film in
cinemas, or was an invisible system, using a mark in an invisible track
alongside the frames, used towards the end so the projectors were
started and capped/uncapped automatically?

Most ITV companies used a 'barbers pole' style like you describe. Top

Post by NY
right to cue in an ad break, and (not often seen) top left to cue in a
VT or TK insert. YTV and Granada seemed to use a static white box.
Lately, when you do see them on ITV/4/5 they are on ITN news shows and
are the 'Liquorice Allsort' style.

Most ITV companies used a 'barbers pole' style like you describe. Top

Post by NY
right to cue in an ad break, and (not often seen) top left to cue in a
VT or TK insert. YTV and Granada seemed to use a static white box.
Lately, when you do see them on ITV/4/5 they are on ITN news shows and
are the 'Liquorice Allsort' style.

we're getting towards "within living memory". When I was a student (1961)
the theatre./cinema where I sometimes worked got its first discharge light
projectors - to replace carbon arcs. so, 60+ years ago, reel changss were
going out of fashion.