Recommended PVR for elderly?

[Lobster]

I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...

I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.

Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part
with £200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they
want it for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a
better bet, right?

By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.

Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.

Thanks
David

[Robin]

Post by Lobster
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.

I am in a similar position - including not having reached a decision.
FWLIW I would say:

a. while the Topfield has much to commend it, and I do not want to be
the subject of a Fatwah from its many supporters, forget it: too
complex;

b. we have a Humax PVR9200T which we find very simple to set (with
the EPG) and which we think the (even more) elderly person would too,
but the remote control is a bit daunting (and like most of them, not
designed for the macular degeneration generation) so we have regrouped
and are waiting for the next time the VCR "takes it upon itself to
record the wrong thing" ;

c. "Which?" also commented on ease of use in their rewview; but

d. possibly best test is to go with them to a showroom where they can
go hands-on with the remote(s) and be talked through setting a programme
and then playing it back. Comet on a (not public holiday) Monday
morning perhaps?

[Owain]

Post by Robin

Post by Lobster
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.

b. we have a Humax PVR9200T which we find very simple to set (with
the EPG) and which we think the (even more) elderly person would too,
but the remote control is a bit daunting (and like most of them, not
designed for the macular degeneration generation)

Would it be possible to use a 'universal' remote control with bigger
buttons?

Post by Robin
d. possibly best test is to go with them to a showroom where they can
go hands-on with the remote(s) and be talked through setting a programme
and then playing it back.

Even better might be somewhere like QVC which has a 30-day money back
guarantee - enough time for a really good play-with.

Owain

[Paul D.Smith]

Post by Owain
Would it be possible to use a 'universal' remote control with bigger
buttons?

There is a "One4All" remote design for exactly this purpose. It's called
something like the "BigOne" and has limited buttons, but they're big. The
downside is the price!

Paul DS.

[Alan]

Post by Robin

Post by Lobster
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.

I am in a similar position - including not having reached a decision.
a. while the Topfield has much to commend it, and I do not want to be
the subject of a Fatwah from its many supporters, forget it: too
complex;

Out of the box the Toppy (Topfield) 5800 PVR is probably just as simple
to use as most of its competitors.

What makes the Toppy different is that it can be used with third party
programs to alter its behaviour. There is no need to change the default
program on a Toppy to use it although many fans will download software
to change the appearance of the EPG and to add addition program searches
and timers. This unique function has attracted a price premium but
recently it has been on sale from various Internet suppliers at a price
comparable to other models in its class.

If the OP wants to see the UK manual it can be found at
http://www.toppy.org.uk/newusers/manual.php

Post by Robin
b. we have a Humax PVR9200T which we find very simple to set (with
the EPG)

Don't all PVRs have this facility?

Humax have signed up to the Freeview Playback branding which means that
their latest models should now conform to the 'ease of use' EPG. At
least with Humax the OP can check for the Freeview Playback label.

Note: many manufacturers haven't signed up to this branding but it
doesn't mean that they work in a different way.

Post by Robin
and which we think the (even more) elderly person would too,
but the remote control is a bit daunting (and like most of them, not
designed for the macular degeneration generation) so we have regrouped
and are waiting for the next time the VCR "takes it upon itself to
record the wrong thing" ;

I guess that with most remote controls the majority of people only use
half a dozen buttons on a regular basis.

Post by Robin
Comet on a (not public holiday) Monday
morning perhaps?

Go into comet and the uninitiated would come away with a £200 box and a
gold plated SCART cable also costing £200 :(

[Robin]

Post by Alan
Out of the box the Toppy (Topfield) 5800 PVR is probably just as
simple to use as most of its competitors.

I have now seen that the recent "Which?" report did applaud the Toppy
for ease of use (although neither it nor the Humax came top of their
list on that score). I may just have had bad experiences with them.

[DavidM]

Post by Robin

Post by Alan
Out of the box the Toppy (Topfield) 5800 PVR is probably just as
simple to use as most of its competitors.

I have now seen that the recent "Which?" report did applaud the Toppy
for ease of use (although neither it nor the Humax came top of their
list on that score). I may just have had bad experiences with them.

What did come top of the list then? Tease.

[Robin]

Post by DavidM
What did come top of the list then? Tease.

I was conscious that the Consumers' Association have to make a living
from their subscribers:)

But since you twist my arm, best for "ease of use" was the Logik
LPV2250. The report also gave that a better overall scaore than both
the Toppy and Hummy. From the report the only possible drawback I can
see for the OP is that it is very much a "black box" which is a big step
from a VCR with a nice reassuring clock and display. Pace
housetrained, Dave Fawthrop et al, some of us in our "failing fifties"
do wonder if we'll cope with change as well as we once did.)

Also sold as TVonics according to
http://www.ricability-digitaltv.org.uk/pages/test-reports/stbs_and_digital_tv_recorders/test-reports-stbs-and-digital-tv-recorders/pvrs-summary-test-reports/tvonics_dvr-250.htm

[DavidM]

Post by Robin

Post by DavidM
What did come top of the list then? Tease.

I was conscious that the Consumers' Association have to make a living
from their subscribers:)
But since you twist my arm, best for "ease of use" was the Logik
LPV2250. The report also gave that a better overall scaore than both
the Toppy and Hummy...

Shame that review only lists the old Daewoo DSD9520, the current range
is pretty good.
My folks have been using a Daewoo DSD9502T that we got them for
Christmas. They are not at the dribbly stage yet, and were actually able
to program the previous VCR sometimes. Everyone seems to get on really
well with the DSD9502T. It's logical to use and program for recordings,
the firmware seems very stable and the 80GB disc is ample for recording
all the program clashes over at least a four week period.
People here don't seem to mention it, all I hear is Toppy this and Human
that.

[Geoff Winkless]

Post by DavidM
My folks have been using a Daewoo DSD9502T that we got them for
Christmas. They are not at the dribbly stage yet, and were actually able
to program the previous VCR sometimes. Everyone seems to get on really
well with the DSD9502T. It's logical to use and program for recordings,
the firmware seems very stable and the 80GB disc is ample for recording
all the program clashes over at least a four week period.
People here don't seem to mention it, all I hear is Toppy this and Human
that.

Mainly because the Daewoo is about £130 and misses features (like the RF
encoder and the USB port) which you can get for not very much more money
from the Humax (which has twice the drive space too).

When the Daewoo was on special offer from Tecno for sub-£100 it was
worth seriously considering but it's just too close to the competition now.

Geoff

[DavidM]

Post by Geoff Winkless
When the Daewoo was on special offer from Tecno for sub-£100 it was
worth seriously considering but it's just too close to the competition now.

Yeah true. I got one when it was £89.99. There was nothing around to
compete on price. It's still a very nice machine to use, features are
not the be all and end all.

[Andrew]

On Mon, 07 May 2007 14:53:30 GMT, "Robin"

Post by Robin
a. while the Topfield has much to commend it, and I do not want to be
the subject of a Fatwah from its many supporters, forget it: too
complex;

If the OP sets up the MyStuff TAP, the Toppy becomes as user friendly
as anything else and more powerful. OOTB I will admit it is a lot more
complex than it needs to be.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Robin
a. while the Topfield has much to commend it, and I do not want to be
the subject of a Fatwah from its many supporters, forget it: too
complex;

I'd not describe it as complex for simple time shifting. Indeed, it would
be difficult to make it much simpler.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Robin
a. while the Topfield has much to commend it, and I do not want to be
the subject of a Fatwah from its many supporters, forget it: too
complex;

Just to clarify for those who don't have one, with the latest software (as
supplied, not aftermarket) the simplest way to record a prog not yet
started is:-

Call up the EPG.
Toggle to the channel you want.
Toggle to the prog you want.
Click on OK twice.

To replay:-
Call up the recorded list.
Toggle to the prog you want.
Press OK

These tasks involve only two buttons apart from the toggle and ok which
are the 'main' ones anyway.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Lobster
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part
with £200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they
want it for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a
better bet, right?
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.

I bought my parents a Sharp TUR160H, they are similar age to yours, they
get on well with it (well actually at present it has suffered hard drive
failure) but I can tell they want to use it as the keep badgering me to
pick it up and return it to the shop for them (I have the receipt) so I
know they use it :-)

It isn't the fullest featured box (it has 2 tuners, but uses one purely
for recording, the other purely for watching live tv) but it's a doddle
to use.

HTH

[Michael Chare]

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part with
£200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they want it
for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a better
bet, right?

That would be my opinion.

Post by Lobster
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.

Get one that you know about, so that if they get confused you can tell them
what to do.

Whilst a TF5800 is quite complex to install and configure, the daily
operation is quite simple. I run mine with the Jags Tap.

[kim]

Post by Michael Chare

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part
with £200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they
want it for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a
better bet, right?

That would be my opinion.

Post by Lobster
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.

Get one that you know about, so that if they get confused you can tell
them what to do.

That's why all my friends bought Panasonic DVD recorders. If any of us gets
stuck the others can help out. No shit.

(kim)

[Adrian A]

Post by kim

Post by Michael Chare

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a
hard disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage...
they thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded
to part with £200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since
they all they want it for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard
disk device would be a better bet, right?

That would be my opinion.

Post by Lobster
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.

Get one that you know about, so that if they get confused you can
tell them what to do.

That's why all my friends bought Panasonic DVD recorders. If any of
us gets stuck the others can help out. No shit.
(kim)

The Panasonics have good remotes, very clear play, stop and pause buttons.

[Lord Turkey Cough]

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part with
£200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they want it
for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a better
bet, right?

I would try a sagem if they are the same design as there plain
set top boxes would stay well clear of the humax if it is anyting
like the one my parents have.
(too me a year to get the sound control working again :O)
)

Chennel llist and favoutires was fooked too.
Sagem has much less ways to screw up.

Post by Lobster
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.
Thanks
David

[Paul Woodsford]

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part with
£200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they want it
for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a better
bet, right?
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.
Thanks
David

Digihome from Argos. 16 day money back guarantee. 2 Digital tuners, 7 day
EPG, simple remote. 80GB HD £ 95. Also do larger HD version, but if all you
want is time skip the smaller one will do. That will record 40hrs of
programmes. Check it out.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Paul Woodsford
Digihome from Argos. 16 day money back guarantee. 2 Digital tuners, 7 day
EPG, simple remote. 80GB HD £ 95.

£87 in Tesco at the moment, no idea what they're like of course.

[Dom Robinson]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Paul Woodsford
Digihome from Argos. 16 day money back guarantee. 2 Digital tuners, 7 day
EPG, simple remote. 80GB HD £ 95.

£87 in Tesco at the moment, no idea what they're like of course.

I've not used the unit in question, but my granddad has a Digihome Freeview
box and it's identical to the Alba that my Mum has, apart from the name on the
front of the unit.

[Woby Tide]

Post by Paul Woodsford

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part with
£200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they want it
for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a better
bet, right?
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.
Thanks
David

Digihome from Argos. 16 day money back guarantee. 2 Digital tuners, 7 day
EPG, simple remote. 80GB HD £ 95. Also do larger HD version, but if all you
want is time skip the smaller one will do. That will record 40hrs of
programmes. Check it out.

Freeview boxes at Argos are all excluded from the money back guarantee
unless they are faulty.

[kim]

Post by Paul Woodsford

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part with
£200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they want it
for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be a better
bet, right?
By far the prime consideration is ease of use; no bells and whistles
required; cost not a huge issue if means it's something they can use
easily. They have terrestrial Freeview; no Sky/cable etc.
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.
Thanks
David

Digihome from Argos. 16 day money back guarantee. 2 Digital tuners, 7 day
EPG, simple remote. 80GB HD £ 95. Also do larger HD version, but if all you
want is time skip the smaller one will do. That will record 40hrs of
programmes. Check it out.

Freeview boxes at Argos are all excluded from the money back guarantee
unless they are faulty.

Also try getting any kind of technical support from Argos. They have an
online form which you can fill in but they don't bother responding to it.

(kim)

[Alan]

Post by Lobster
I hope this isn't too much of an FAQ but I did have a good hunt first...
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.

The Ricability site gives advice on PVRs for the 'elderly and disabled'
which gives recommendations on 'ease of use' - although not necessarily
the best technical specification.

It's probably not worth buying anything from Humax, Sony and TVonics if
it hasn't got the Freeview Playback logo as its a good guide that
anything from these manufactures without this logo is old stock as soon
to be replaced with new models (if not already replaced)

Post by Lobster
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage... they
thought they wanted a DVD recorder (and were nearly persuaded to part
with £200 on one by a Comet drone last week!) but since they all they
want it for is time-shifting I'm sure that a hard disk device would be
a better bet, right?

Consider also how many tuners in the box. Many boxes with two tuners
allow you to watch one program while recording another (some boxes also
allow limited viewing of a third channel while recording two). Boxes
with one tuner don't offer this option.

40G and 80G hard disk sizes are probably too small - go for 160G or
250G.

[housetrained]

Post by Lobster
I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage...

<snip>

Post by Lobster
Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.
Thanks
David

Hi,
Why do young people all think that 'old' means 'dim'?
If you are a dimwit at 30 you will still be one at 70.
You should have titled -
Recommended PVR for dimwits?

[Dave Fawthrop]

On Tue, 08 May 2007 09:31:13 GMT, "housetrained"
<***@ntlworld.com> wrote:

|!"Lobster" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
|!news:LyG%h.4066$***@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
|!>>
|!> I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
|!> disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
|!>
|!> Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage...
|!<snip>
|!> Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.
|!>
|!> Thanks
|!> David
|!
|!Hi,
|!Why do young people all think that 'old' means 'dim'?
|!If you are a dimwit at 30 you will still be one at 70.

Likewise if you are bright when young you will still be bright when old.

[charles]

Post by Dave Fawthrop
On Tue, 08 May 2007 09:31:13 GMT, "housetrained"
|!>>
|!> I'm trying to assist my elderly parents (70s) buying a PVR - ie a hard
|!> disk recorder and would appreciate some advice.
|!>
|!> Currently they have an old VCR which they can just about manage...
|!<snip>
|!> Any pointers would be thoroughly appreciated.
|!>
|!> Thanks
|!> David
|!
|!Hi,
|!Why do young people all think that 'old' means 'dim'?
|!If you are a dimwit at 30 you will still be one at 70.
Likewise if you are bright when young you will still be bright when old.

However, there are people who are very bright who can't programme a VCR.
It's just that they don't have a technical mind - but still a bright one.

[housetrained]

<snip>>> Likewise if you are bright when young you will still be bright when
old.

Post by charles
However, there are people who are very bright who can't programme a VCR.
It's just that they don't have a technical mind - but still a bright one.
--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

By 'bright' you mean able to read and understand, and write a thesis about
Willy Waggle Dagger. They are the dimmest of all. Intellectual = Dim.
Proof = Our Government!

[Roderick Stewart]

On Tue, 08 May 2007 12:58:23 +0100, charles

Post by charles

Post by Dave Fawthrop
|!Hi,
|!Why do young people all think that 'old' means 'dim'?
|!If you are a dimwit at 30 you will still be one at 70.
Likewise if you are bright when young you will still be bright when old.

However, there are people who are very bright who can't programme a VCR.
It's just that they don't have a technical mind - but still a bright one.

My mother, who was a doctor (medical) but not especially technical,
lived to be 80 and managed to write a daily journal up to her very
last day, including pictures, on a computer, and to exchange emails,
sometimes also including pictures, with friends and family all over
the world. At first she'd take the pictures with a film camera and
scan the prints, but later we got her a digital camera and card reader
and she soon got the hang of that. And she had 3 videos, all different
makes, and knew how to program all of them.

Sometimes in shops I've seen books with titles like "Windows for
Seniors", and "Word processing for Seniors", and it always feels like
an insult. Maybe if I get to be really old I won't want to know all
the details of every new fangled gadget, but I'm sure I'll be able to
handle the basic domestic technology for which I have a daily use.
Mostly it's just a matter of reading the instructions and using common
sense.

Rod.

[Michael Chare]

Post by Roderick Stewart
On Tue, 08 May 2007 12:58:23 +0100, charles

Post by charles

Post by Dave Fawthrop
|!Hi,
|!Why do young people all think that 'old' means 'dim'?
|!If you are a dimwit at 30 you will still be one at 70.
Likewise if you are bright when young you will still be bright when old.

However, there are people who are very bright who can't programme a VCR.
It's just that they don't have a technical mind - but still a bright one.

My mother, who was a doctor (medical) but not especially technical,
lived to be 80 and managed to write a daily journal up to her very
last day, including pictures, on a computer, and to exchange emails,
sometimes also including pictures, with friends and family all over
the world. At first she'd take the pictures with a film camera and
scan the prints, but later we got her a digital camera and card reader
and she soon got the hang of that. And she had 3 videos, all different
makes, and knew how to program all of them.
Sometimes in shops I've seen books with titles like "Windows for
Seniors", and "Word processing for Seniors", and it always feels like
an insult. Maybe if I get to be really old I won't want to know all
the details of every new fangled gadget, but I'm sure I'll be able to
handle the basic domestic technology for which I have a daily use.
Mostly it's just a matter of reading the instructions and using common
sense.
Rod.

When Joseph Rotblat (Jewish scientist, Nobel Prize winner, sent by Britain
to work on the Manhattan project)
was interviewed on Desert Island disk when in his 90s. His reply to the
question 'What luxury would you like to take with you?' was a 'Laptop'.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Rotblat

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.obituaries/browse_thread/thread/6548fafa58c4e125/672c17162b682b15?lnk=st&q=&rnum=9&hl=en#672c17162b682b15

[Woby Tide]

Post by Michael Chare

Post by Roderick Stewart
On Tue, 08 May 2007 12:58:23 +0100, charles

Post by charles

Post by Dave Fawthrop
|!Hi,
|!Why do young people all think that 'old' means 'dim'?
|!If you are a dimwit at 30 you will still be one at 70.
Likewise if you are bright when young you will still be bright when old.

However, there are people who are very bright who can't programme a VCR.
It's just that they don't have a technical mind - but still a bright one.

My mother, who was a doctor (medical) but not especially technical,
lived to be 80 and managed to write a daily journal up to her very
last day, including pictures, on a computer, and to exchange emails,
sometimes also including pictures, with friends and family all over
the world. At first she'd take the pictures with a film camera and
scan the prints, but later we got her a digital camera and card reader
and she soon got the hang of that. And she had 3 videos, all different
makes, and knew how to program all of them.
Sometimes in shops I've seen books with titles like "Windows for
Seniors", and "Word processing for Seniors", and it always feels like
an insult. Maybe if I get to be really old I won't want to know all
the details of every new fangled gadget, but I'm sure I'll be able to
handle the basic domestic technology for which I have a daily use.
Mostly it's just a matter of reading the instructions and using common
sense.
Rod.

When Joseph Rotblat (Jewish scientist, Nobel Prize winner, sent by Britain
to work on the Manhattan project)
was interviewed on Desert Island disk when in his 90s. His reply to the
question 'What luxury would you like to take with you?' was a 'Laptop'.

he used it to keep his plate off his lap whilst he had his tea

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Tue, 08 May 2007 22:06:03 +0100, Roderick Stewart

Post by Roderick Stewart
Mostly it's just a matter of reading the instructions and using common
sense.

Just? An ever increasing number of the population seems to have trouble
with one if not both of these.
The trouble is made worse by pandering to this and dumbing everything
down, which results in a downwards spiral - evolution in reverse I guess.

[Steve Thackery]

For what it's worth, I think the Hummy 9200T has a very easy-to-use
on-screen interface, but it is let down by its remote control, which is
basically a very poor design.

Therefore I couldn't recommend it, unless someone has succeeded in getting
it to work with a nice, friendly universal remote.

Steve

[cwyatt]

yep..you asked this question on the PVR Forum on Digital Spy and the usual
crowd all shouted "Humax!!!" and "Topfield!!!" :

http://www.ricability-digitaltv.org.uk/pages/test-reports/stbs_and_digital_tv_recorders/recommendations/easiest-to-use-digital-tv-recorders.htm



A Humax might be OK but downloading TAPs?

[Alan]

Post by cwyatt
yep..you asked this question on the PVR Forum on Digital Spy and the usual
http://www.ricability-digitaltv.org.uk/pages/test-reports/stbs_and_digit
al_tv_recorders/recommendations/easiest-to-use-digital-tv-recorders.htm
A Humax might be OK but downloading TAPs?

Why do believe that you have to download TAPs? The Toppy (Topfield)
works perfectly well out-of-the-box and it is in this operational mode
that gets the high scores in the reviews.

If anyone buys a Toppy and they want to experiment with TAPs (third
party programs that alter the way the user interfaces work and add extra
functionality) then there is a UK web site with a very large UK userbase
that can provide help. The Toppy forums currently have 60,000 posts.

http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php

[Nigel Whitfield]

Post by Alan

Post by cwyatt
A Humax might be OK but downloading TAPs?

Why do believe that you have to download TAPs? The Toppy (Topfield)
works perfectly well out-of-the-box and it is in this operational mode
that gets the high scores in the reviews.

Indeed; the majority of Toppy users probably don't use TAPs, but Mr
Diggler/cwyatt is on a mission of some sort.

My mother is in her 70s, and manages perfectly well with the Toppy, or
rather, at least as well as she does with any other bit of technology.

I too find the idea that the older people - who have, after all, lived
through a period of astonishing technological change, while we
youngsters have merely seen the same things get smaller, faster and
more colourful - can't manage complicated things somewhat patronising.

People of my mother's age have moved from schoolroom slates, box
brownies and wind up gramophones to word processors, digital cameras
and on-demand entertainment.

They've learned to use a lot along the way, so why on earth imagine
that they'll be flummoxed by the idea of using arrows to select
something on a screen and pressing a button with a record symbol?

Nigel.

[cwyatt]

I wonder who it is who sits on the back cover of What Satellite and Digital
TV every month in his knickers and vest and wearing a curly black wig ?.

[p***@btinternet.com]

I may be shouted down for this, but as the majority of my customers
are between 60 and 90 and I always teach them to use their new
equipment, I find the older, single tuner Humax PVR8000T to be the
most user friendly of all the PVRs(although the play etc buttons on
the remote are far too small).

The EPG stays populated when the machine is in standby unlike my 2
PVR9200's at home which can take a very long time to produce a full
guide.

They are devoid of all clever features apart from:
Excellent Large menus,
Recording TV easily from the EPG,
Recording Radio easily from the EPG,
Live Pause,
Live rewind,
Easier switching between Radio and TV than the 9200
Unlike the 9200, they have a remote control which, like a Sky Remote,
can be set up to control on/off and volume of most makes of TV. (The
9200 is a real pain in this respect as the volume buttons control the
output of the box and therefore there are two lots of volume controls
and customers constantly manage to reduce the box volume to the point
where they have to turn the tv volume right up and wonder why the
sound is still too low and hissy and why they are blasted out of the
room when they go back to analogue TV, DVD, VCR or switch the Humax to
standby)

One major complaint about the operating systems of both models...why
oh why, Humax, can you not make it so that you can press "OK" to play
a chosen recording from the list rather than having to press "PLAY"??
Everyone presses OK naturally (Which leads to EDITING). Make the
"Play" button an "EDIT" button, and "OK" to play......problem solved!!
(or perhaps its just me and all of my customers)
Oh yes, and while we are about it, Could it say "RECORDINGS" rather
than "RECORD" on the main menu. Simple, but it would avoid so much
confusion.

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by p***@btinternet.com
I may be shouted down for this, but as the majority of my customers
are between 60 and 90 and I always teach them to use their new
equipment, I find the older, single tuner Humax PVR8000T to be the
most user friendly of all the PVRs(although the play etc buttons on
the remote are far too small).

You may shout me down for this, but although I'm not quite into that
age group yet and have a lifetime's experience of various types of
recording equipment, the Humax 800T is the most confusing and least
user-friendly one I've ever encountered.

I thought the purpose of using a random-access device like a computer
disk was that you could watch a previous recording while a new one was
being made, but this machine won't let me do this. It will allow me to
watch the *same* programme that is being recorded from any earlier
point, but as soon as the recording ends, the playback is stopped too,
switching me abruptly to live TV reception, and I have to wade through
a sequence of menu operations to find the recording and then spool
through it to the point where it abandoned me. How do you persuade
your 90 year old customers that this is simple? And do you warn them
to be careful not to press the power button while a recording is being
made, because there is no interlock preventing it from scuppering the
recording?

Rod.

[p***@btinternet.com]

I thought that someone would shout me down,
I have both 8000 and 9200 at home and like both for different reasons,
BUT the point is that most older people, if they have any experience
of recording, will have a basic knowledge of what a VCR can do.
Mostly they want to timeshift and the bonus of live pause is great.
For them, and most others, programming from the EPG is magic. Playing
a recording whilst making another is not an issue. Making two
recordings at once is not really an issue. And it has already been
stated that those concerned already have Freeview so watching one and
recording one is no problem either.

I have installed and fully explained the usage of every one of the
many hundreds of VCR's, DVD recorders and PVR8000's and PVR9200's that
I have sold over 17 years and I can very safely say that I have had
fewer phone calls afterwards re the usage of the 8000's than anything
else.

For most, the dual purpose remote is great but it has to be said that
there are some who find selection of control of the TV or control of
the PVR on/off a bit confusing. For those, I take out the operating
code for TV control and they do use the TV's own remote.

By the way, the vast majority of VCR's also stopped recording if the
standby button was pressed.

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by p***@btinternet.com
I have installed and fully explained the usage of every one of the
many hundreds of VCR's, DVD recorders and PVR8000's and PVR9200's that
I have sold over 17 years and I can very safely say that I have had
fewer phone calls afterwards re the usage of the 8000's than anything
else.

Maybe this is because they just accept the limitations of this machine
as characteristic of all disk recorders, which is rather a shame
because it is possible to do better.

Post by p***@btinternet.com
[...]
By the way, the vast majority of VCR's also stopped recording if the
standby button was pressed.

True, but then the vast majority of VCRs had a load of other
limitations that don't inherently apply to disk machines - like
spooling time and the need to rewind for instance, and the lack of
editing facilities.

Maybe the 8000 was an attempt to make a disk recorder that behaved
like a VCR, in the same way that most camera manufacturers continue to
make electronic stills cameras that physically resemble film cameras
when there's no need to from an operational point of view, and plenty
to be gained by using the increased flexibility that electronics can
offer. I can see the commercial pressure to make new technology
resemble what people are already accustomed to, because that is
probably what largely determines what they buy, but after they've
bought it they're often lumbered with something that doesn't do much
more for them than what they already had.

Rod.

[Robin]

Post by p***@btinternet.com
One major complaint about the operating systems of both models...why
oh why, Humax, can you not make it so that you can press "OK" to play
a chosen recording from the list rather than having to press "PLAY"??
Everyone presses OK naturally

I agreed.

But note tense: Humax have changed this in the current software so OK
does indeed play the selected recording (although you still then have to
press MENU to get out of the menu and see it full screen). You now
delete with the red button (the other red button that is, not the Record
button).

I console myself with the thought that, if I make it to 70+, voice
recognition will have replaced the buttoned remote.

[Alan]

Post by Robin
I console myself with the thought that, if I make it to 70+, voice
recognition will have replaced the buttoned remote.

And if anyone in the TV programme being watched says the words 'off -
change - record - delete' the box would automatically respond to the
command.

[Robin]

Post by Alan
And if anyone in the TV programme being watched says the words 'off -
change - record - delete' the box would automatically respond to the
command.

That was, if I recall correctly, anticipated and solved in SF by the
1950s by requiring an unusual word or phrase within a few seconds to
confirm/implement commands. Eg "Pitcairn" or "Go Fido" or perhaps, if
you are really worried about accidents, "Alistair Campbell is the most
honest person in Britain"?

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sun, 13 May 2007 14:58:54 GMT, "Robin"

Post by Robin

Post by Alan
And if anyone in the TV programme being watched says the words 'off -
change - record - delete' the box would automatically respond to the
command.

That was, if I recall correctly, anticipated and solved in SF by the
1950s by requiring an unusual word or phrase within a few seconds to
confirm/implement commands. Eg "Pitcairn" or "Go Fido" or perhaps, if
you are really worried about accidents, "Alistair Campbell is the most
honest person in Britain"?

That could make voice-operated channel-hopping a bit awkward.

Rod.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Robin
But note tense: Humax have changed this in the current software so OK
does indeed play the selected recording (although you still then have to
press MENU to get out of the menu and see it full screen). You now
delete with the red button (the other red button that is, not the Record
button).

I'm glad I got the Toppy, then. Pressing ok cancels the menu at the times
you want this to happen.

[Alan]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Robin
But note tense: Humax have changed this in the current software so OK
does indeed play the selected recording (although you still then have to
press MENU to get out of the menu and see it full screen). You now
delete with the red button (the other red button that is, not the Record
button).

I'm glad I got the Toppy, then. Pressing ok cancels the menu at the times
you want this to happen.

And even if this wasn't the default operation someone would write a
Toppy TAP to ensure that it could be changed :)