SOT: iPad mini market intelligence

Post by Scott
I want to replace my iPad mini 2 as one after another apps are no
longer supported with a lot of apps requiring minimum iOS 15. I
understand there is an iPad mini 7 due to be released.
I am wondering whether this means the existing mini 6 will see a price
drop or whether Apple will cease manufacture of the 6th generation (if
they have not done so already) and allow the 6 to disappear from the
market. I see the basic version is currently out of stock at John
Lewis online. My question is whether to panic buy now, wait for a
price reduction or wait for the new model.
Any ideas whether the new model will be assembled in China or the Nam?

Various websites seem to think the mini 7 won’t appear until October 2024
or even 2025. The 6 is available from the Apple Store, either the physical
or online stores.

Scott

2024-06-11 20:27:59 UTC

On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 20:18:46 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Various websites seem to think the mini 7 wont appear until October 2024
or even 2025. The 6 is available from the Apple Store, either the physical
or online stores.

Thanks. It's also on Argos (most colours) so what I am wondering is
whether to buy now while I can or wait for a price reduction when the
new model is released. In other words (and this was the 'market
intelligence' reference), is there likely to be lots of old stock
swirling around or is the 6 likely to go off the shelves before the
new version 7 is released?

Tweed

2024-06-11 21:03:53 UTC

Post by Scott
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 20:18:46 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Various websites seem to think the mini 7 wont appear until October 2024
or even 2025. The 6 is available from the Apple Store, either the physical
or online stores.

Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish just before
the new one turns up.

Scott

2024-06-11 21:06:06 UTC

On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 21:03:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Scott
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 20:18:46 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Various websites seem to think the mini 7 won?t appear until October 2024
or even 2025. The 6 is available from the Apple Store, either the physical
or online stores.

Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish just before
the new one turns up.

Thanks. I wondered about that.

Tweed

2024-06-12 05:48:20 UTC

Post by Scott
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 21:03:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Scott
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 20:18:46 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Various websites seem to think the mini 7 won?t appear until October 2024
or even 2025. The 6 is available from the Apple Store, either the physical
or online stores.

Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish just before
the new one turns up.

Thanks. I wondered about that.

Would the normal sized iPad suit you? They have just reduced the price of
that one. The base model is £349.

Scott

2024-06-12 08:29:24 UTC

On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 05:48:20 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Scott
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 21:03:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Scott
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 20:18:46 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Various websites seem to think the mini 7 won?t appear until October 2024
or even 2025. The 6 is available from the Apple Store, either the physical
or online stores.

Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish just before
the new one turns up.

Thanks. I wondered about that.

Would the normal sized iPad suit you? They have just reduced the price of
that one. The base model is £349.

Thanks. I wondered about that. I know the iPad mini is becoming a
niche product as the phones get bigger but for my uses I find the mini
more convenient. I was hoping to get a big discount but - as you
observe - I suspect Apple is hoping to prevent this.

Jim Lesurf

2024-06-14 09:15:23 UTC

Post by Tweed
Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish just before
the new one turns up.

Looks like a very profitable method to force obsolecence and make people
feel they hav eno choice but to re-contribute to Apple's wealth and market
manipulation.

IIRC a radio prog a while ago commented that Apple are a *trillion* dollar
company in terms of their 'wealth'. No idea if that is true, but it seems
plausible given their ability to decide when they can get people to
dutifully hand over their wallet content, again, when Apple fancies.

Jim

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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Bob Latham

2024-06-14 10:03:55 UTC

Post by Tweed
Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish
just before the new one turns up.

Looks like a very profitable method to force obsolecence and make
people feel they hav eno choice but to re-contribute to Apple's
wealth and market manipulation.
IIRC a radio prog a while ago commented that Apple are a *trillion*
dollar company in terms of their 'wealth'. No idea if that is true,
but it seems plausible given their ability to decide when they can
get people to dutifully hand over their wallet content, again, when
Apple fancies.

All you say is correct and even worse when people like sonos shut
down a player because the iPad doesn't have the latest sonos
software. It's free to download but it will not install unless the
latest ios software is installed and at a certain age Apple no longer
supply ios for the device.

This means that your sonos system can be 7/8 knobbled at a sonos drop
of the hat and the only way to fix it is to buy a new iPad.

All pretty awful but unfortunately iPads are very useful indeed. Judi
and I both have one and they get hammered and if one died it would
have to be replaced quicly.

Bob.

Scott

2024-06-14 11:51:30 UTC

On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:03:55 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Tweed
Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish
just before the new one turns up.

Looks like a very profitable method to force obsolecence and make
people feel they hav eno choice but to re-contribute to Apple's
wealth and market manipulation.
IIRC a radio prog a while ago commented that Apple are a *trillion*
dollar company in terms of their 'wealth'. No idea if that is true,
but it seems plausible given their ability to decide when they can
get people to dutifully hand over their wallet content, again, when
Apple fancies.

All you say is correct and even worse when people like sonos shut
down a player because the iPad doesn't have the latest sonos
software. It's free to download but it will not install unless the
latest ios software is installed and at a certain age Apple no longer
supply ios for the device.
This means that your sonos system can be 7/8 knobbled at a sonos drop
of the hat and the only way to fix it is to buy a new iPad.
All pretty awful but unfortunately iPads are very useful indeed. Judi
and I both have one and they get hammered and if one died it would
have to be replaced quicly.

At the start of the thread I observed this is far from a Sonos issue.
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 - Sky News,
Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for needing a new
iPad.

I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app - more
likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

Tweed

2024-06-14 12:12:28 UTC

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:03:55 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Tweed
Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish
just before the new one turns up.

Looks like a very profitable method to force obsolecence and make
people feel they hav eno choice but to re-contribute to Apple's
wealth and market manipulation.
IIRC a radio prog a while ago commented that Apple are a *trillion*
dollar company in terms of their 'wealth'. No idea if that is true,
but it seems plausible given their ability to decide when they can
get people to dutifully hand over their wallet content, again, when
Apple fancies.

All you say is correct and even worse when people like sonos shut
down a player because the iPad doesn't have the latest sonos
software. It's free to download but it will not install unless the
latest ios software is installed and at a certain age Apple no longer
supply ios for the device.
This means that your sonos system can be 7/8 knobbled at a sonos drop
of the hat and the only way to fix it is to buy a new iPad.
All pretty awful but unfortunately iPads are very useful indeed. Judi
and I both have one and they get hammered and if one died it would
have to be replaced quicly.

At the start of the thread I observed this is far from a Sonos issue.
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 - Sky News,
Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for needing a new
iPad.
I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app - more
likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

Apple support their software for longer than most vendors. What is driving
the obsolescence of older iPads is that they don’t support a 64 bit
operating system. Devices post June 2017 support the latest iOS. That’s 7
years.

If your app only needs iOS 15 then you can go back to a 2014 device.

Keeping ancient software running is an industry wide problem. Eventually
you run out of people who even know how it works. I think the trendy term
is technical deficit.

Scott

2024-06-14 12:34:06 UTC

On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:12:28 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:03:55 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Tweed
Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish
just before the new one turns up.

Looks like a very profitable method to force obsolecence and make
people feel they hav eno choice but to re-contribute to Apple's
wealth and market manipulation.
IIRC a radio prog a while ago commented that Apple are a *trillion*
dollar company in terms of their 'wealth'. No idea if that is true,
but it seems plausible given their ability to decide when they can
get people to dutifully hand over their wallet content, again, when
Apple fancies.

All you say is correct and even worse when people like sonos shut
down a player because the iPad doesn't have the latest sonos
software. It's free to download but it will not install unless the
latest ios software is installed and at a certain age Apple no longer
supply ios for the device.
This means that your sonos system can be 7/8 knobbled at a sonos drop
of the hat and the only way to fix it is to buy a new iPad.
All pretty awful but unfortunately iPads are very useful indeed. Judi
and I both have one and they get hammered and if one died it would
have to be replaced quicly.

At the start of the thread I observed this is far from a Sonos issue.
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 - Sky News,
Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for needing a new
iPad.
I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app - more
likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

Apple support their software for longer than most vendors. What is driving
the obsolescence of older iPads is that they dont support a 64 bit
operating system. Devices post June 2017 support the latest iOS. Thats 7
years.
If your app only needs iOS 15 then you can go back to a 2014 device.
Keeping ancient software running is an industry wide problem. Eventually
you run out of people who even know how it works. I think the trendy term
is technical deficit.

Back to our previous discussion, are you saying an iPad 6 is unlikely
to become obsolete for a very long time and it therefore will not make
much difference if I wait for the new model (iPad 7)?

Tweed

2024-06-14 12:46:38 UTC

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 12:12:28 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:03:55 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Tweed
Apple seem to be very good at making sure old versions vanish
just before the new one turns up.

Looks like a very profitable method to force obsolecence and make
people feel they hav eno choice but to re-contribute to Apple's
wealth and market manipulation.
IIRC a radio prog a while ago commented that Apple are a *trillion*
dollar company in terms of their 'wealth'. No idea if that is true,
but it seems plausible given their ability to decide when they can
get people to dutifully hand over their wallet content, again, when
Apple fancies.

All you say is correct and even worse when people like sonos shut
down a player because the iPad doesn't have the latest sonos
software. It's free to download but it will not install unless the
latest ios software is installed and at a certain age Apple no longer
supply ios for the device.
This means that your sonos system can be 7/8 knobbled at a sonos drop
of the hat and the only way to fix it is to buy a new iPad.
All pretty awful but unfortunately iPads are very useful indeed. Judi
and I both have one and they get hammered and if one died it would
have to be replaced quicly.

At the start of the thread I observed this is far from a Sonos issue.
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 - Sky News,
Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for needing a new
iPad.
I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app - more
likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

Back to our previous discussion, are you saying an iPad 6 is unlikely
to become obsolete for a very long time and it therefore will not make
much difference if I wait for the new model (iPad 7)?

The mini 6 is a bit long in the tooth, being released in September 2021 -
so it you might estimate that it is getting on for having used up a chunk
of its support lifetime already. The mini is rather the unloved child of
the iPad line. I suppose you could buy a 6 now and then perhaps whatever is
available in a few years time. No pockets in a shroud….

Jim Lesurf

2024-06-20 09:00:04 UTC

Post by Tweed
Apple support their software for longer than most vendors. What is
driving the obsolescence of older iPads is that they don't support a 64
bit operating system. Devices post June 2017 support the latest iOS.
That's 7 years.

However you shouldn't find *user software* which did a job on that box no
longer does so. Fair enough if you want new capabilities, then upgrade. But
if you just want to do what worked fine, bricking is a bad idea.

I'm running a number of RISC OS/Linux machines of all kinds of ages (of
hardware and OS). They all work fine and lack the above 'feature' of being
bricked by the vendor of the OS deciding to cut off old systems.

The oldest Linux laptop still happily can capture or edit DVB-T2 material.
Just that when editing it is markedly sloower than newer boxes.

Jim

Scott

2024-06-20 09:48:20 UTC

Would you place the responsibility on the provider of the OS? I think
it would be unreasonable to expect Sky News or National Rail Enquiries
to support every version of iOS and ever version of Android
indefinitely.

Jim Lesurf

2024-06-23 09:45:04 UTC

Would you place the responsibility on the provider of the OS? I think it
would be unreasonable to expect Sky News or National Rail Enquiries to
support every version of iOS and ever version of Android indefinitely.

It depends on the case and the wit of those involved in generating data to
be read, and rendered.

One of the key points of HTML was that the language was intended to be
independent of the choice of hardware/OS/software used for generating and
rendering the information.

Not that most people would realise that nowdays given the way it has been
developed and extended by various 'scriptings' since by people who want to
please their boss or control users rather than provide an open way to
exchange information.

As it is now, it suits the *commercial* focus of buisinesses to develop
things in a way that keeps 'breaking' what used to work, and thus almost
force users to discard 'old' things and *pay* for new ones.

JWC used to quote a hard dictum; "It is the slave who makes slavery
possible." But of course, resistance may mean death or degradation or in
other ways. To the point where people become habituated.

Jim

Bob Latham

2024-06-14 13:40:47 UTC

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:03:55 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Bob Latham
All you say is correct and even worse when people like sonos shut
down a player because the iPad doesn't have the latest sonos
software. It's free to download but it will not install unless the
latest ios software is installed and at a certain age Apple no
longer supply ios for the device.
This means that your sonos system can be 7/8 knobbled at a sonos
drop of the hat and the only way to fix it is to buy a new iPad.
All pretty awful but unfortunately iPads are very useful indeed.
Judi and I both have one and they get hammered and if one died it
would have to be replaced quicly.

At the start of the thread I observed this is far from a Sonos
issue.

I'm sorry, I don't agree, it is very much a Sonos policy choice.
Another manufacturer of similar iPad controlled players doe not do
that. Linn send you information that an upgrade is available along
with minimum requirements and what the upgrade does. It then lets you
decide if you want to install it. It does not force the issue on you
by killing 7/8 of functionality. You can stay as you are as long as
you wish.

Post by Scott
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 -
Sky News, Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for
needing a new iPad.

What I object to is being forced to upgrade to continue using a
product you've purchased and worked fine yesterday.

Post by Scott
I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app - more
likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

It happened to me maybe 8 or 9 years ago and to friends much more
recently. All of us have abandoned Sonos (as such) and their forced
upgrade policy was very much a part of that decision. I would not
recommend them to my worst enemy.

Instead, I now use the sonos play5 as an amplified speaker fed with
music from a raspberry pi with a good sound card and as a bonus, the
pi is controlled by the same Linn app I use for the Linn player and
it can now stream and play 192/24 hi-res. No, I'm not recommending
hi-res. :-)

Bob.

Tweed

2024-06-14 14:13:26 UTC

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:03:55 +0100, Bob Latham

At the start of the thread I observed this is far from a Sonos issue.

Post by Scott
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 -
Sky News, Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for
needing a new iPad.

What I object to is being forced to upgrade to continue using a
product you've purchased and worked fine yesterday.

There’s a cost to the suppliers of those apps for continuing legacy
support. They all hook into their servers. They add new features but then
have to support and test fall back for older clients that they can’t
upgrade. Supporting apps for 10 year old platforms becomes expensive.

Bob Latham

2024-06-14 16:26:53 UTC

There's a cost to the suppliers of those apps for continuing legacy
support. They all hook into their servers. They add new features
but then have to support and test fall back for older clients that
they can't upgrade. Supporting apps for 10 year old platforms
becomes expensive.

So only give support for reasonably up to date systems. That way you
don't suddenly force people into an expensive corner.

No excuse for killing a purchased device just because the
manufacturer would prefer it all as they would like it.

Bob.

Scott

2024-06-14 16:10:03 UTC

On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 14:40:47 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:03:55 +0100, Bob Latham

At the start of the thread I observed this is far from a Sonos issue.

A policy choice also made by many others, I think you will find, not
unique to Sonos.

Post by Scott
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 -
Sky News, Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for
needing a new iPad.

What I object to is being forced to upgrade to continue using a
product you've purchased and worked fine yesterday.

Post by Scott
I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app - more
likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

So it's not every version of iOS that requires an upgrade then.

Post by Bob Latham
Instead, I now use the sonos play5 as an amplified speaker fed with
music from a raspberry pi with a good sound card and as a bonus, the
pi is controlled by the same Linn app I use for the Linn player and
it can now stream and play 192/24 hi-res. No, I'm not recommending
hi-res. :-)
Bob.

Bob Latham

2024-06-14 18:27:14 UTC

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 14:40:47 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Bob Latham
I'm sorry, I don't agree, it is very much a Sonos policy choice.
Another manufacturer of similar iPad controlled players doe not do
that. Linn send you information that an upgrade is available along
with minimum requirements and what the upgrade does. It then lets
you decide if you want to install it. It does not force the issue
on you by killing 7/8 of functionality. You can stay as you are as
long as you wish.

A policy choice also made by many others, I think you will find,

Possibly but that doesn't make it acceptable.

Post by Scott
not unique to Sonos.

I don't recall saying it was. ????

Post by Scott

Post by Scott
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 - Sky
News, Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for
needing a new iPad.

What I object to is being forced to upgrade to continue using a
product you've purchased and worked fine yesterday.

Post by Scott
I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app -
more likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

So it's not every version of iOS that requires an upgrade then.

<sigh> I'll explain again.

The problem occurs at the point where Apple decide a machine will not
have any more ios updates. At that point Sonos refuse to install the
Sonos app updates because ios is not the latest. So suddenly and
without warning you system is 7/8 dead and the only way to fix this
is to buy another iPad.

Why are you point scoring ?

Bob.

Scott

2024-06-15 08:22:02 UTC

On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:27:14 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 14:40:47 +0100, Bob Latham

A policy choice also made by many others, I think you will find,

Possibly but that doesn't make it acceptable.

Post by Scott
not unique to Sonos.

I don't recall saying it was. ????

I interpreted 'I don't agree' as disagreement :-)

Post by Scott

Post by Scott
One by one, apps are falling because they require iOS 15 - Sky
News, Met Office, Argos, YouTube etc. This is my reason for
needing a new iPad.

What I object to is being forced to upgrade to continue using a
product you've purchased and worked fine yesterday.

Post by Scott
I would be surprised though if Sonos requires the latest app -
more likely a minimum specification of a particular iOS version.

So it's not every version of iOS that requires an upgrade then.

<sigh> I'll explain again.
The problem occurs at the point where Apple decide a machine will not
have any more ios updates. At that point Sonos refuse to install the
Sonos app updates because ios is not the latest. So suddenly and
without warning you system is 7/8 dead and the only way to fix this
is to buy another iPad.
Why are you point scoring ?

I don't think I am. I was pointing out that your assertion that '...
people like sonos shut down a player because the iPad doesn't have the
latest sonos software.' is misleading and unfair to Sonos (who I think
have quite a good track record of support). It is simply not the case
that every release of iOS requires a new Sonos.

I do not work for Sonos btw.

Bob Latham

2024-06-15 09:35:57 UTC

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:27:14 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Scott
So it's not every version of iOS that requires an upgrade then.

<sigh> I'll explain again.
The problem occurs at the point where Apple decide a machine will
not have any more ios updates. At that point Sonos refuse to
install the Sonos app updates because ios is not the latest. So
suddenly and without warning you system is 7/8 dead and the only
way to fix this is to buy another iPad.
Why are you point scoring ?

I don't think I am. I was pointing out that your assertion that
'... people like sonos shut down a player because the iPad doesn't
have the latest sonos software.' is misleading and unfair to Sonos
(who I think have quite a good track record of support). It is
simply not the case that every release of iOS requires a new Sonos.

I'm not getting through am I?

I've not said anywhere that ANY "release of iOS requires a new Sonos"

I'll try once more and then that's it..

Sonos FORCE updates on their users continuously. They give you no
option, they 7/8 kill your system until you do as they wish and
update your system. So what worked yesterday doesn't work today even
though it's your property it has been switched off remotely by Sonos.

I find that unacceptable.

At that point you can *USUALLY* update the Sonos and the Sonos
software on your iPad free of charge and the problem is fixed.

However, if your ipad has gone past a point where Apple do not update
its ios any more then you are stuffed. Sonos will not install its
required iPad software on an iPad who's ios is out of date. A broken
system and the only way to fix it is to buy another ipad.

I find that even more unacceptable.

This in contrast with Linn who do not force any update, it informs
the customer there is one available and leaves it up to them to
decide.

I quite understand that Apple get to a point where the iPad hardware
is so old that it can't use the latest ios code and that Apple don't
wish to upgrade multiple versions of code past a certain point.

We have one old iPad model A1416 which apparently is from early 2012
and that sounds reasonable to how I remember getting it. It functions
exactly as it did with two exceptions:

1. The App Store is telling me to update "Find My iPhone" to version
4.0 17 sep 2014. It will not install.

2. Sonos! Completely broken and cannot be fixed.

Everything else on the machine still works fine.

It is Sonos that chooses to kill their customers kit as opposed to
leaving them alone like Linn.

Bob.

Post by Scott
I do not work for Sonos btw.

I don't work. :-)

Tweed

2024-06-15 09:47:40 UTC

Post by Scott
On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:27:14 +0100, Bob Latham

Post by Scott
So it's not every version of iOS that requires an upgrade then.

<sigh> I'll explain again.
The problem occurs at the point where Apple decide a machine will
not have any more ios updates. At that point Sonos refuse to
install the Sonos app updates because ios is not the latest. So
suddenly and without warning you system is 7/8 dead and the only
way to fix this is to buy another iPad.
Why are you point scoring ?

I don't think I am. I was pointing out that your assertion that
'... people like sonos shut down a player because the iPad doesn't
have the latest sonos software.' is misleading and unfair to Sonos
(who I think have quite a good track record of support). It is
simply not the case that every release of iOS requires a new Sonos.

I'm not getting through am I?
I've not said anywhere that ANY "release of iOS requires a new Sonos"
I'll try once more and then that's it..
Sonos FORCE updates on their users continuously. They give you no
option, they 7/8 kill your system until you do as they wish and
update your system. So what worked yesterday doesn't work today even
though it's your property it has been switched off remotely by Sonos.
I find that unacceptable.
At that point you can *USUALLY* update the Sonos and the Sonos
software on your iPad free of charge and the problem is fixed.
However, if your ipad has gone past a point where Apple do not update
its ios any more then you are stuffed. Sonos will not install its
required iPad software on an iPad who's ios is out of date. A broken
system and the only way to fix it is to buy another ipad.
I find that even more unacceptable.
This in contrast with Linn who do not force any update, it informs
the customer there is one available and leaves it up to them to
decide.
I quite understand that Apple get to a point where the iPad hardware
is so old that it can't use the latest ios code and that Apple don't
wish to upgrade multiple versions of code past a certain point.
We have one old iPad model A1416 which apparently is from early 2012
and that sounds reasonable to how I remember getting it. It functions
1. The App Store is telling me to update "Find My iPhone" to version
4.0 17 sep 2014. It will not install.
2. Sonos! Completely broken and cannot be fixed.
Everything else on the machine still works fine.
It is Sonos that chooses to kill their customers kit as opposed to
leaving them alone like Linn.
Bob.

Post by Scott
I do not work for Sonos btw.

I don't work. :-)

Sounds more like a Sonos problem than an Apple one. Perhaps the answer is
not to buy their products?

Mind you, if you think Sonos are bad Microsoft are about to unleash a mass
extinction event on perfectly good Windows 10 machines (please, let’s not
start the usual you can use Linux instead). Millions of perfectly useable
machines are going to get scrapped unless there is a change of heart.

Bob Latham

2024-06-15 10:01:16 UTC

Post by Tweed
Sounds more like a Sonos problem than an Apple one. Perhaps the
answer is not to buy their products?
Mind you, if you think Sonos are bad Microsoft are about to unleash
a mass extinction event on perfectly good Windows 10 machines
(please, let's not start the usual you can use Linux instead).
Millions of perfectly useable machines are going to get scrapped
unless there is a change of heart.

Couldn't agree more with all of that.

Bob.

Jim Lesurf

2024-06-20 09:00:03 UTC

Post by Tweed
Mind you, if you think Sonos are bad Microsoft are about to unleash a
mass extinction event on perfectly good Windows 10 machines (please,
let's not start the usual you can use Linux instead). Millions of
perfectly useable machines are going to get scrapped unless there is a
change of heart.

Puzzled by your anxiety to block the mere mention of changing to a free
open OS, etc. If numpties like me find Linux pretty simple to use. it seems
to me at least worth others giving it a tryout. Its free. So you can dump
it again after a time if you wish - no cost beyond being willing to give it
a try and explore it a bit.

May be time wasted. But might just be time well spent and you end up
pleased you gave it a go.

Jim

Tweed

2024-06-20 11:38:51 UTC

Puzzled by your anxiety to block the mere mention of changing to a free
open OS, etc. If numpties like me find Linux pretty simple to use. it seems
to me at least worth others giving it a tryout. Its free. So you can dump
it again after a time if you wish - no cost beyond being willing to give it
a try and explore it a bit.
May be time wasted. But might just be time well spent and you end up
pleased you gave it a go.
Jim

I use Linux all the time. But there are applications it can’t run, mainly
CAD.

But look wider - the corporate world is mainly Windows based and will be
regardless of what any Linux proponent says. Many corporate security
polices require an up to date OS, and this will drive the dumping of
millions of machines when Windows 10 goes out of support.

Jim Lesurf

2024-06-23 09:45:05 UTC

I use Linux all the time. But there are applications it can't run,
mainly CAD.
But look wider - the corporate world is mainly Windows based and will be
regardless of what any Linux proponent says. Many corporate security
polices require an up to date OS, and this will drive the dumping of
millions of machines when Windows 10 goes out of support.

Indeed. We have no real choice is the motto.

cf my previous posting as to why we have allowed this to occur.

Jim

Tweed

2024-06-23 10:42:56 UTC

Indeed. We have no real choice is the motto.
cf my previous posting as to why we have allowed this to occur.
Jim

I take the world as I find it, not as I wish it to be. However, in this
instance regulatory action should be taken against Microsoft. It’s clearly
technically possible to run Windows 11 on the deprecated platforms, as has
been demonstrated by registry hacks. I understand the arguments that the
deprecated platforms have hardware security issues, but as sure as night
follows day the same will happen with the newer hardware.

Scott

2024-06-15 17:48:43 UTC

On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 10:35:57 +0100, Bob Latham
<***@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
[snip]

Okay, maybe I picked it up wrongly but I am happy to leave it to
others with greater familiarity with Sonos equipment to comment.

Bob Latham

2024-06-18 13:17:26 UTC

Post by Bob Latham
This in contrast with Linn who do not force any update, it informs
the customer there is one available and leaves it up to them to
decide.

Actually thinking about it, the difference is even more stark.

In the 10 years I've had a Linn streamer not only has Linn never
forced an upgrade of either player or iPad software the two are not
even connected. Each gets an optional upgrade from time to time
independently.

In addition, if something about the latest player software doesn't
suit you, Linn provide an option to select, download and install
previous generations of the software - the choice is yours.

Looking after customers needs & wishes or bullying then to follow the
company line, quite a difference.

No, I do not have any connection with Linn other than as a customer.

Bob.

Scott

2024-06-13 11:31:54 UTC

As an aside, I have been reading about plans by Apple (and many
others) to move some production away from China to reduce reliance on
a single source. Vietnam is mentioned, along with India. The
suggestion seems to be that Vietnam will start with new products at
the lower end of the market. I wonder if this might include the iPad
mini. This could account for the uncertainty over release date.

Whilst this could provide an opportunity to make a political statement
as a consume, it could also lead to delays and teething troubles.
Maybe it would be better to buy one off the shelf now?

Tweed

2024-06-13 11:47:54 UTC

Post by Scott
As an aside, I have been reading about plans by Apple (and many
others) to move some production away from China to reduce reliance on
a single source. Vietnam is mentioned, along with India. The
suggestion seems to be that Vietnam will start with new products at
the lower end of the market. I wonder if this might include the iPad
mini. This could account for the uncertainty over release date.
Whilst this could provide an opportunity to make a political statement
as a consume, it could also lead to delays and teething troubles.
Maybe it would be better to buy one off the shelf now?

Apple multi source their supply chain. I really wouldn’t worry about it.
Apple had a struggle bringing the new iPad Air and iPad Pro to market on
time, largely down to ongoing disruptions in the semiconductor supply
chain. These products were around 3 months late to market. The iPad mini
just seems to be a lower priority product for them. I suspect much of its
market has been taken up by people using large screen iPhones. A new iPad
mini will turn up, but probably not until the end of this year or early
next year.

Scott

2024-06-13 17:28:55 UTC

On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 11:47:54 -0000 (UTC), Tweed

Post by Scott
As an aside, I have been reading about plans by Apple (and many
others) to move some production away from China to reduce reliance on
a single source. Vietnam is mentioned, along with India. The
suggestion seems to be that Vietnam will start with new products at
the lower end of the market. I wonder if this might include the iPad
mini. This could account for the uncertainty over release date.
Whilst this could provide an opportunity to make a political statement
as a consumer, it could also lead to delays and teething troubles.
Maybe it would be better to buy one off the shelf now?

Apple multi source their supply chain. I really wouldnt worry about it.
Apple had a struggle bringing the new iPad Air and iPad Pro to market on
time, largely down to ongoing disruptions in the semiconductor supply
chain. These products were around 3 months late to market. The iPad mini
just seems to be a lower priority product for them. I suspect much of its
market has been taken up by people using large screen iPhones. A new iPad
mini will turn up, but probably not until the end of this year or early
next year.

When I said 'single source' I was referring to the assembly, not the
components. According to this article (and others):
https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/01/01/apple-to-diversify-its-supply-chain-by-producing-macbooks-in-vietnam/
Apple has been highly dependent on China for manufacture.

Indeed: 'Apple has relied on China to manufacture all of its products,
but due to the pandemic and ongoing trade tension between the U.S. and
China, Apple is moving production out of the country'.

Tweed

2024-06-13 19:03:04 UTC